Comments on: TOA and USL, is Everything Exploding or Imploding?

By: Chris A

Chris A — Tue, 01 Dec 2009 19:37:31 +0000

No one should drink the Kool-Aid coming out of either camp . . .

By: Brian Quarstad

Brian Quarstad — Tue, 01 Dec 2009 15:23:31 +0000

Chuck, so every American should be waving a red white and blue flag and supporting TOA, right? No room for questions, just follow TOA blindly? Come on man, you should know better than to make things so black and white because things never are that clear. Lets dialog here and weed out what works and what doesn’t. I love your passion but not you’re wanting to group everyone together to make them all think like you.

First, I think you are taking Tony Bakker’s comments very literally. Didn’t hey say that the TOA has some very legitimate points and didn’t he drop to USL-2 showing that he was very unhappy with the USL and USL-1 in particular. I think what he was saying was he didn’t like the rebel nature of the TOA and both sides inability to work something out. Perhaps you are right that there was no way to work this out as they fundamental beliefs between the two sides are too cavernous.

Right now my fundamental concern with the TOA is their plan will call for spending that is far beyond what they can afford. Even MLS isn’t making money yet. If not for SUM they would be up a creek without a paddle and so would American soccer. That is not to say that TOA/NASL does not have a new and fresh approach to things that could certainly work. But there’s lots to work out and a lot of money to spend before they get there.

By: chuck

chuck — Tue, 01 Dec 2009 15:10:04 +0000

I’m with NASL Forever and the posters who say cooler heads DID prevail when the TOA sloughed off USL. Charleston’s CEO Tony Bakker is flat-out wrong to say “This breakaway is not good for soccer in the United States.” What is not good for soccer in America (or Charleston) is for USL team owners to sit and watch while their clubs and league become increasingly irrelevant.

USL’s big dream is to be a semi-pro league where college players can hone their skills in the off season and keep their NCAA eligibility. So let it be just that; and American soccer fans will continue to ignore both the USL and the NCAA. I’m fine with that.

What I am not fine with is the socialist league structure of American sports brought on by powerful leagues and the franchise system. This system encourages incompetence and mediocrity with excessive profit sharing, salary caps, player movement restrictions, and franchises (granting local monopolies to one team – protection from local competition is the enemy of excellence, customer service, and creative and competent management). MLS is the worst of all American sports leagues in this regard because of the single-entity structure.

If there is an effort to form a league run by teams, that strives for excellence, with a goal of competing with and eventually surpassing MLS in quality, that allows the best-supported clubs to excel – that effort should be backed by every American soccer fan.

By: CoconutMonkey

CoconutMonkey — Mon, 30 Nov 2009 07:38:25 +0000

“Do you really think there is much of a demand for a PDL game with the Thunder vs. Des Moines Menace game or Springfield, IL? Lower level also means lower caliber which just won’t sell in this market”.

“If you go to Rochester the scenario is different as it will be in St. Louis as it will be in Miami as it will be in Puerto Rico. It’s just not as simple as putting a US mainstream sport in a city”.

Great stuff guys. How cities support their team depends on a LOT of factors. Having a committed right-minded owner with gobs of cash never hurts though And -while I hate to bring up pro/rel- but the way the leagues are structured makes a big difference too. I’m a lot more motivated as a fan to cheer on my Sagantosu men to J1 glory than to cheer on the Quad City River Bandits to a Midwest League Championship.

But the PDL is a different animal all together. While I doubt there’s much difference in demand for a PDL match in DesMoines, or Springfield. But I think there’s a lot of potential for a team like the Fire Reserves to pull a few fans in if the price and kick-off time is right. But, that all depends on your definition of success too.

By the way, does anyone know what kind of relationship the PDL or USL2 has with the NCAA?

By: Travis

Travis — Fri, 27 Nov 2009 18:54:05 +0000

Anybody else seen this yet?

http://tess2.uspto.gov/bin/showfield?f=doc&state=4005:qu71pg.10.1

Could be interesting being that Miami Strikers is taken too.

http://www.mls-rumors.net/4828/2009/11/report-old-nasl-names-revived-minutemen-atoms-strikers-roughnecks-atlanta-chiefs-baltimore-bays-detroit-express-all-trademarked-on-nov-19/

By: Brian Quarstad

Brian Quarstad — Fri, 27 Nov 2009 03:33:09 +0000

Jorey, here is a better article with links and quotes from Garber. Its written by Grant Wahl at SI.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/soccer/11/23/fifa.mls/index.html

Also, check out Major League Soccer Talk. Some good stuff there on the subject. As well, Kartik has written at The Kartik Report about thing getting tough for the USSF with all these issues going on, including the USL/TOA saga. It’s going to be a tough couple of months for USSF, even though FIFA is saying the player contract issue is a MLS issue and not a USSF issue, we all know that USSF and MLS are commingled in a way that you cannot deal with one without dealing with the other.

By: Peebo Bryant

Peebo Bryant — Fri, 27 Nov 2009 02:05:35 +0000

Sour milk and bad breath is all I hear. False innuendos and no real facts. Jim Jones is a sourpuss that is pissed off because he could not profitably run a team. If his facts are correct, and not one team was profitable, then how is this a USL problem, it sounds like soccer in America does not work, and that is more plausible that Marcos being the problem child here. It sounds as he is the scape goat.

Hell, MLS, other than Seattle and Toronto does not work and both of those are former USL teams.

Investing $40,000,00 does not guarantee success either, in fact, it most certainly subjects you to more capital calls.

By: Jorey

Jorey — Fri, 27 Nov 2009 02:05:11 +0000

I thought this was interesting, it just shows the different way we do things in American soccer and maybe the players have had enough. It looks like MLS/USSF has bigger things on its plate than TOA/USL issues.

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/story?id=704098&sec=mls&cc=5901

By: Jim Jones

Jim Jones — Thu, 26 Nov 2009 18:12:18 +0000

The USL has been a joke from Day 1. Francisco Marcos colluded with the USSF to set up the structure. How do you explain that when the MLS began its first season in 1995 the MLS took from the (USISL) USL 183 players and did not pay any of the owners of the USISL teams one dime for transfer fees. The contracts were actually owned by the league. So whatever money changed hands (I am sure it was mid six fiures) went into Francisco Marcos pocket. The same year when the owners of the Northeast Division of the USISL wanted to merge with the old A League, there was Franciso Marcos and the USSF to block the deal, therby giving the MLS a monopoly that it enjoys today.Frncisco had 4 0f the 7 votes on the professional side of the USSF. So essentially he controlled 1/3 of the USSF. However he voted was the way the Professional Ranks went. Youth had 1/3 and Adult soccer had 1/3. He was the most powerful man in the USSF for many years. The USSF bowed to his every wish. No promotion or relegation. I was one of the fools who bought a franchise from Franciso and lost hundreds of thousands of dollars. The joke was at the annual convention when Francisco was standing at the podium addressing the group, someone asked for anyone who made money in the room to stand up. None of the 44 owners stood up. The joke was Francisco was already standing up. Great set up, no transfer fees, no promotion and the league is owned and operated by the USL and not the team owners. No one has ever made money owning a USL Team. It would be interesting to go back and sue them for breaking the United States anti-trust law. All the former owners of the USISL teams are too tired and lost too much money. It was time to break away back in 1995. It certainly is now.

By: NASL Forever

NASL Forever — Wed, 25 Nov 2009 18:42:38 +0000

To all those who say cooler heads should have sat down with each other in an unbiased environment etc.

THIS HAS ALREADY HAPPENED

numerous times… USL doesn’t care all they want is their big fat paycheck at the end of the month

this has been going on for over two years and after promises and promises from USL for change and restructuring .. nothing NOTHING has happened.

The restructuring they did was to put a figurehead at the “helm” of USL-1 and add some marketing people who gt sucked into the whole USL philosophy of doing absolutely nothing.. end result? a couple of news letters and a terrible USLLive interface and that’s it!

where are all the promises the USL made to the teams to help elevate the league?

My guess they are hidden in Economides’ bank account

end Rant