USL v NASL – Preparing for Compromise
Over the last several months, soccer supporters in North America have been taking sides in the USL v NASL dispute, with fans often falling along the lines of their team. As with all things, the most radical and fervent are often those that demand to be heard by speaking the loudest, proclaiming why their side will prevail. However, the majority of supporters quietly follow along and most likely have a much more neutral leaning or at least not as radical as those who post comments on message boards and blogs that their side is destined to win because…
Compromise
An agreement or a settlement of a dispute that is reached by each side making concessions
For most of us, our experience in life and our better sense tells us that things are not usually so black and white. Americans seem to love winners and losers, but as the days close in on a conclusion to this battle for control of second division soccer in North America, everyone needs to be prepared for compromise. It’s my belief that compromise is what will bring resolution to this issue.
As stated, Americans like winners and losers and do not always see compromise as a good thing, where the rest of the world often sees compromise as a positive. Strangely enough, I even found the Wiki backs me up in this theory. The difficult issue with compromise is you have to give something up and often times something you believe in. But compromise is done in businesses, governments and organizations every day. You will win some points and you will lose on others. This of course is how you achieve resolution.
This is at the top of the list
Neil Buethe USSF
On Tuesday I was in touch with Neil Buethe, Senior Manager of Communication for the U.S. Soccer Federation and he assured me that the USSF wants to resolve this issue soon. “This is at the top of the list,” said Buethe. “It will be handled in a timely fashion.”
No one knows for sure when a decision from USSF is coming, but I believe we will be hearing something within a week, for sure by the close of 2009. As we inch toward a decision between the parties, I hope everyone prepares themselves for compromise and will support that decision and continue to support the USSF and your local soccer team, no matter who’s league they play in – for the good of the game.
Comments are closed.
Nicely done Brian.
I simply hope compromise doesn’t come in the form of UNASL or some other hybrid monster.
Wednesday come and gone. Nothing from the NSC…which I will say is good news. I don’t think they could make a go with a professional team. Your article is spot on, but I think USL will dig in for a while and not give in to compromise by the end of the year. I wouldn’t be surprised to see this go into February/March or longer before everything is settled. I don’t think the decision here is USL or TOA. The decision for USSF is how to encourage compromise and a combined league OR let them both take a shot at running separate leagues.
Also, the long this goes unresolved, the more chance there is that MLS could swoop in and create their own 2nd division league. TOA and USL teams would then be courting the MLS 2nd league to let them play (and paying much larger franchise fees.) With this scenario, MLS is better off showing some interest now, just to keep things cloudy for USSF…which could be what is happening behind the scenes.
Unfortunately, for MN, I think it will take even longer, and may not produce a team to play in 2010. The Thunder mess has to be cleaned up. Too many people are owed money for a simple bankruptcy. Additionally, I think with the Denny-Hecker/Tom Petters climate, some lawyers will get the idea that it might actually pay to go after some of the Thunder execs or owners. Living abroad or moving to Texas won’t stop paperwork from being served. Finally, with the Thunder collapse, much of the soccer community may stay away for a while, be it investing, volunteering or buying tickets.
Zlatan – Please explain to all of us the basis for your comments:
1. “Nothing from the NSC…which I will say is good news. I don’t think they could make a go with a professional team.” Why? Other than raw pessimism, do have some actual insight?
2. “Also, the long this goes unresolved, the more chance there is that MLS could swoop in and create their own 2nd division league. ” Who, what, where, when & how do you have any basis to imagine such a scenario? All we need is a THIRD potential div. 2 league at this point.
I am not try to be overly critical, but are there some factual foundations to your speculation? If not, just let us know that you are throwing out some stream-of-conscience thoughts. Imaginations are a good thing if used properly.
Zlatan,
I believe I said Wednesday was the 30 days for NSC, expect word by the end of the week. Please read more carefully.
“IMS believes that Minnesota soccer fans could be hearing from the NSC as early as the end of the week concerning the NSC’s ongoing and often frenetic work to field a new soccer team for Minnesota.”
As I have stated hear many times, MLS has NO INTEREST whatsoever of creating a second division league. Financially, they are struggling enough on their own and they cut both their reserve teams and their bench size last year. They have been quoted as saying they are not interested and I have posted that here. Why on earth would you believe at this point that MLS would do this, also understanding that Don Garber is involved with these Division 2 league meetings for the USSF?
i think Don Garber will let joey saputo do the job for him…. i think there his some hidden agenda too all off this…..
Thank god for weekends and booze. Each week I come into work on Monday and think, ok USSF is gonna show leadership and make a decision. By the end of the week I am let down and start to worry that maybe USSF is run like a HighSchool pothead who puts his homework off to the last moment in hopes of being saved by a snow day or the teacher being sick and getting an extension.
smatthew, Wow!
Chris and Brian, no worries here, I have thick skin. I am trying to elevate the conversation beyond the news breaking announcement, that are followed by overly positive speculation.
Regarding what is going on with TOA/NASL v USL, much of my comment is conjecture, although I do have some insight. Based on USSF proclamation that this issue is at the “top of the list” and is “it will be handled in a timely fashion.” These statements don’t really mean anything. They are leadership remarks to deflect any additional questions. I believe that *if* USSF leadership had a plan, and was working to build consensus in the soccer community, they would be using media to deliver their ideas through a positive platform.
Even if USSF makes some sore of announcement soon about how they would like see TOA/NASL v USL progress (2nd division league), the likelihood that some faction continue on their own direction is very, very likely. There will be some winners and some losers. (E.g. not all previous PDL teams will get to keep their franchise, etc.) That is what free market is all about. Anyone is free to pursue their own enterprise
Regarding MLS interest, I do believe they are involved in influencing USSF. No 2nd league at all, probably means more revenue for the MLS. Having a 2nd league, that they control, using their branding and management strategies that have been successful to date with pro soccer in the US (only sustained US soccer league to make money) would make them the best stewards for a 2nd division. They constantly talk about the “reach” of their brand and “continuing to expand” in the US. At a minimum, I believe they are involved to serve their own profit driven interests.
Regarding the NSC, I have stated before that their previously stated direction of public + private ownership is probably not workable. They were able to build their brand initially by being opportunistic. NSC jumped on the lack of fields in the metro area in the 90s when youth soccer was exploding. As a pubic works organization they made a good decision. They also built a few sheets of ice at the right time. The have expertise in scheduling facilities and events, not teams, people, egos, finicky sponsors, etc. Much of their labor is volunteer associated with an event. Since the beginning of this decade, their fields and facilities have been in decline. Their flagship tournament draws very few quality teams, and attendance is way down. They have made public-private decisions that have failed (Soccer Academy, NPSL teams, Thunder-facility expansion, etc.) By letting their track decline, and then removing it for a now failed public-private venture with the Thunder, I believe what they really want is a tenant for their upgraded facility. I believe that their connection with any 2nd division team will end up being a “special status” sponsor. Ultimately, this is the best position for them.
I hope I didn’t offend anyone, just sharing my opinion.
Nope, not at all. Although I do not agree with all your statements above I do respect your well stated opinions. Your first comment was a bit brief in explanations and seemed to fly in the face of facts but you have totally redeemed yourself
with a well stated comment. Thanks!!!
Zlatan wrote: ” … some lawyers will get the idea that it might actually pay to go after some of the Thunder execs or owners. Living abroad or moving to Texas won’t stop paperwork from being served. ”
This comment regarding the Thunder Front Office is quite disturbing, as I understand it, many of those in the front office, put their own money on the line by paying for many critical items needed for the running of the teams day to day operations … the insinuation that Djorn left for Texas with pilfered money in his pockets is OUTRAGEOUS, for I believe that he used his own credit card for some team expenses (this is my understanding as heard from third parties).
I thought that the USL press release following the meeting in Portland before the USL AGM went a long way toward addressing some of the items that the TOA were concerned about. At that time, I tought there was a small opening in the window for the parties to come back together. Subsequently, the window was slammed shut, locked from the inside by USL, and boarded from the outside by TOA, sealing the issue tight.
PEACE AND FUTBOL … my tag line, and a phrase that may become quite appropriate if the two sides in this debate are to come to a solution. Which I hope for ALL those involved, from the front office employees, the players and fans, can be resolved in a timely manner.
Zlatan-
I disagree with you. The NSC is a great facility that has run without state financial assistance for some years. It includes a world class facility and despite numerous volunteers the 50+ full-time staff and 100+ part time staff do amazing work throughout the year. In addition, they have done amazing work of bringing in sponsorship money, over 1million a year. They have more than enough infrastructure/resources and money to have a 2nd division franchise in whatever league comes out of this entire mess. There is a proven track record at the NSC and I just hope that they overlook some people’s persistent negativity and have a team next year (with a cool name).
Neal,
Thank you so much for clarifying the issue about Zlatan’s Texas comment. I totally missed that in Zlatan’s 1st comments. (Now who’s not reading closely enough – me)
Neal is dead on concerning this issue and you are WAY off base on said executive. He is owed much money personally by the Thunder as were several employees and many employees including executives were left for months without pay. This has all been documented here on this site numerous times.
Yes Zlatan, the Thunder and Johnson owe money but to compare them to Denny-Hecker/Tom Petters is absurd. Johnson lost a ton of money himself. No one made money in this deal. This discussion is a non-starter in my opinion and you need to get your facts straight before making a damaging comment like that.
I’ll support any decision that results in a team playing in St. Louis in 2010.
If the U.S. soccer (lowercase s) system cannot find room for a well-funded team that owns its own stadium in a major-league market with a huge soccer fanbase, we may as well torch the whole bastard to the ground and start over.
sylvain – too right. there is a little boys club called the MLS that will not allow anything to happen to the million$ their owners have invested in each of the teams ($40 million per club?! C’mon! get real!). Trust me, they are sitting down and looking at every possible scenario to ensure they do not get hurt by this new league. And the USSF will not move forward with anything until ‘the Don’ gives the nod.
smatthew – the USSF is run a lot worse than a HS druggie, a least those guys are focused on one thing and one thing only – getting stoned. we have a president in the USSF that also runs an MLS team (can someone say conflict of interests?), oh yeah, and in his spare time he’s also a economics professor at an Ivy league school. Last time I checked the USSF HQ’s is in Chicago yet our prez is in NYC and Boston?! How would it look if Obama ran the White House from a beach in Florida? He can’t even focus on when he wants the next World Cup in the US (‘let’s apply for 2018 and 2022!’ Heck let’s go for 2026, 2030 and 2034 too! GIVE ME A BREAK!). now don’t get me wrong, I think Sunil has done quite a bit for this sport over the years – were it not for him, we never would have hosted the WC in ’94! but if we are ever to be taken seriously by the rest of the world (which we clearly are not if you saw any of the papers in England after the World Cup draw) then we need to start by hiring a president who’s only job is to run and focus on the sport in this country.
Thanks to Neal and Brian for defending against that completely off-base TX comment. To even insinuate that the owed money is on the hands of any person other than Dean Johnson is offensive as NONE who worked with him or for him were left untouched by what he’s done (if you can’t tell, I am someone who has been affected personally).
I was up at NSC yesterday and heard they are in talks with MTA about taking over their youth academy for the NSC’s new pro team. Really? I can’t believe that is going to happen. Not with the current state of youth soccer in MN and not with the lackluster leadership currently pulling the MTA ship.
The only decision making guys with any type of elite player development experience AND proven success outside of this state are Storlien and Cook. I’d put MA in that grouping as well but he’s no longer with the club as a director. The other coaching directors and board members are a dime a dozen in this state.
NSC wants to make a real go of a youth system? Go get an advisory group of the state’s best soccer minds – Barker, Curtis (repping MYSA), Tudor, Peznecker, Storlien, Cook, Abboud (yes, convince the guy to get back involved), Carl, Law, and brainstorm. Go partner with US Club’s ID2 system if MYSA won’t get off their ignorant high horse and come to the table. This is an opportunity to start over and do things in a better way. Bangu and MTA have paved the way. Times change and maybe a different approach with the same end goal is the way.
I have no idea why NSC would want to get in bed with MTA and give every other club out there an excuse to not support the pro team. Bad decision. I support an elite youth system but support the idea of a viable pro team in this state more.
From what I understood they were in talks with MTA about a “association”, not to take it over. I won’t speculate but from what I know I’m very much doubting that this is fact. Erickson has specifically stated that they did not want to go down that road of having a youth academy. You can find Erickson’s quotes about that right here on this site.
Although interesting, I think getting a consortium of all the people you mentioned is a great idea but a long shot in getting them all on the same page. I would also add a few other names in there as well but since that’s not really the topic at hand (Compromise between the USL and NASL.) I’ll leave it for now.
What a great conversation! I’m learning a LOT from all of you. I’ve attended many games at NSC, so I want to speak in support of it. Great place. You can see the game very well from all anywhere, and I’m sure that when they wrap around the whole field with the same type of seating as on the West side (or is it the East side), it’ll be absolutely fabulous.
I don’t know what the capabilities of the NSC organization are in terms of running their own 2nd tier team, but let’s not forget that they stepped up to the plate to offer us – the fans – high caliber soccer in MN. I’m sure they have personal business interests also, but they’d have to be silly not to. I will support them, because I LOVE soccer.
Ultimately, I feel the same about the TOA/NASL v. USL issue as well. I have played soccer my whole life and will continue to do so. I have supported competitive pro soccer my whole and I will continue to do so. At this time my greatest contribution is to be a loyal & supportive fan. Let’s go Minnesota!
In the spirit of the original article, which is about compromise, here is one possibility. I know up front that this probable won’t work in real life, given the players involved, but at least I can go to bed tonight knowing I suggested something constructive rather than destructive:
If, as another article indicates, we have potentially 12 viable teams for next year, why not structure them similar to baseball (before interleague play!). We could have 2 leagues (both USSF sanctioned) of 6 teams each – one with the USL clubs and those contracted to play USL who are being sued, and one for the rest. They would be independent and play separate schedules, but meet in the end in a national second division championship game. This would be for 2010 only. Then, in 2011, when contracts are no longer an issue, they could merge back into one league.
OK, I know that geographically there may be problems with this idea, such as travel costs, but at least I’m trying to think outside the box.
Let the flaming commence!
If the situation is still unresolved/in flux/in court when March rolls around, how could there possibly be enough time to do all the prep work involved in setting up a season fixture, not to mention venue issues, lost leases, deposits, players wandering away in the turmoil.
Say It Ain’t- So-
I just spoke to Paul Erickson of the NSC and your comment is totally off base.
“NSC DEFINITELY WILL NOT have a youth club sponsored with the team!” They do wish to work with the MTA as well as ALL youth clubs in the state in regard to some sort of an association, but not to be an NSC sponsored or affiliated team. Your rumor is just that, rumor.
In my words – in talking to Paul Erickson both previously and today, they understand the stronghold of the community club here in MN and have also seen what happened with the Thunder. They do not wish to walk that same path at this time. However, I’m guessing NSC will be very involved with youth clubs in general.
Neal, BQ and Anonymous,
I am making no claims about the activities or non-activities of any current or former Thunder executive or staff. I am insinuating nothing. I believe a personal relationship that you believe I am attacking (or little paranoia), is reading venom into my comments. None was intended.
Unless you have seen their financial records, and deposed former employees and talked with creditors, I would let a bankruptcy judge determine what is fact and what is fiction related to the Thunder finances. They will determine what was paid what when, who took on liabilities for the company, which existing liabilities should be covered by any assets, etc. Some 3rd party may have told you something, but that does make it fact.
I find it interesting and a little amusing, that others would assert that the Thunders failure was based on a bad real estate market or that the supposedly semi-absentee owner was fully responsible. Last time I checked the Thunder were a soccer team, not a commercial building. Again, I am making no assertion on fault regarding the Thunders demise. I was a long time season ticket holder.
Everyone should be cautious about sharing specifics, when there is likely to be a bankruptcy and possibly creditor law suites to come.
Especially about who paid for what, when. In a hypothetical situation, if you are stating as a verifiable fact, that Person A regularly paid for an expenses from personal means, then in the eyes of a creditor, who regularly received payment from Person A’s personal means, Person A *might* be a creditors payment target. Additionally, a judge, *may* also determine that Person A is liable for any outstanding expense of that type.
I think I will shut up now, as I may come off as just stirring the pot
This is a business. Since when does it make sense for business rivals to compromise? Compromise will happen when the league with the least support and less successful ideas goes out of business.
Zlatan,
“I am making no claims about the activities or non-activities of any current or former Thunder executive or staff.”
“I find it interesting and a little amusing, that others would assert that the Thunders failure was based on a bad real estate market or that the supposedly semi-absentee owner was fully responsible. ”
Do you seen anything contradictory about those two statements? Yes you are making claims about activities in the second quote, and you certainly seem to have not only a bias but now you are blaming people who are owed 10′s of thousands of dollars by Johnson. What’s up with that?
Yes, you are stirring the pot and insulting a lot of people that went down with the ship for Wingfield and the Thunder. You are also insulting a lot of people that are very much in the know and have been on top of this situation.
Zlatan, your getting close to getting you IP spammed. I have no issue with you having an opinion, but DO NOT SLANDER those who have already sacrificed their own credit and their families finances for this team and then insinuate that they were the problem. I’m will not allow that.
BQ,
I will start with an apology to all current/former Thunder employees. I am sorry if I offended you. I wish the best for you and your family.
I do not find my statements contradictory. On this blog, others have made assertions of Johnson’s single-culpability and also made assertions of a bad real estate market as blame. I don’t recall you warning them with claims of slander.
Again, I made it very clear that I am making no claims about responsibility…in the same paragraph that I make a “claim of amusement” about others making claims. How else would I make a statement of absurdity? Do you want me to blame Johnson? Based on fact? I don’t know all the facts at this point. I do know from personal experience that when an established organization fails, it is *usually* a combination of bad decision making at/near the top, and a perfect storm of circumstance, economic and market conditions.
Again, without referring to any statements made on this thread, just because someone says something, doesn’t make it a fact. Saying “I know” or “I was there”, does not make it a fact. Even in your most recent article, your recite Ziggy Wilf stating that he wants to bring MLS to MSP…then go on to say “don’t count on it.” Is it a fact, because he said it? Or an assertion by Wilf to try to rally the soccer community behind his stadium plans?
Compromise.
I’m a community mediator with experience in negotiations. Sometimes, a compromise where you win some and lose some is the only solution. Other times, collaboration is possible and there is no splitting down the middle. If you’ll allow me an example from my mediation classes.
Two people are fighting over an orange. The first solution is to cut it in half. However, through the process of mediation, you find out the underlying needs. One person needs the rind for cooking, the other needs the pulp for eating. You have collaboration and a solution that fills the needs fully.
You know I would love to be in that room with Sunil, Joey and Alex and try to work it out.
Instead of a compromise, I think this will end up being a tiered system.
Tier 1 – MLS premier division
Tier 2 – NASL division 2 (bigger markets not ready for prime time)
Tier 3 – USL division 3 (smaller markets)
Tier 4 – PDL amateur leagues
It’s the only way that makes sense.
Man I’m glad I stay with HS soccer.
I don’t have this sort of team disbanding problems.
Just ignore the problematic parents and you’ll do fine.