Comments on: National Sports Center Takes Steps to Moves Forward with Pro Soccer Team http://www.insidemnsoccer.com/2009/12/21/national-sports-center-takes-steps-to-moves-forward-with-pro-soccer-team/ Thu, 09 Feb 2012 15:13:25 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Scott Kerssen http://www.insidemnsoccer.com/2009/12/21/national-sports-center-takes-steps-to-moves-forward-with-pro-soccer-team/#comment-3994 Scott Kerssen Tue, 29 Dec 2009 19:24:35 +0000 http://www.insidemnsoccer.com/?p=12940#comment-3994 In the short term, alot of the amenities that are frequently mentioned in the boards already; new scoreboard, more concession stands, more restroom facilities, more entries into stadium. Also, the main stands are in need of cosmetic upgrade, as there are areas where finishing concrete is crumbling. In the longer term, a proper stadium. Nothing fancy, but a three or four-sided permanent structure stadium that would seat between 15,000 and 20,000 people. As it is, the place looks like a second level Texas high school stadium. Here are a few upper level Texas H.S. stadiums, just for comparison: http://www.texasbob.com/stadium/stadium.php?id=392 http://www.texasbob.com/stadium/stadium.php?id=1044 http://www.texasbob.com/stadium/stadium.php?id=1292 I'm also tossing in Morrison Stadium, Creighton U's venue, as a scaled-down example of what I have in mind. Be sure to go through the picture gallery. Lightning Striker and I went to Thunder pre-season training camp just as the stadium was nearing completion and was first being used. We were both impressed. http://www.gocreighton.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=1000&ATCLID=1150414 Frankly, the current NSC stadium looks like small potatoes. Again, not looking for big-league frills. Just an actual stadium with permanent sides. Also, although it's not technically part of the facility, the aforementioned "Sports-Themed Commercial Development Project" could, if done right, be a major draw for the far-flung fans that would enable them and their families to "make a day of it". In the short term, alot of the amenities that are frequently mentioned in the boards already; new scoreboard, more concession stands, more restroom facilities, more entries into stadium. Also, the main stands are in need of cosmetic upgrade, as there are areas where finishing concrete is crumbling.

In the longer term, a proper stadium. Nothing fancy, but a three or four-sided permanent structure stadium that would seat between 15,000 and 20,000 people. As it is, the place looks like a second level Texas high school stadium. Here are a few upper level Texas H.S. stadiums, just for comparison:

http://www.texasbob.com/stadium/stadium.php?id=392

http://www.texasbob.com/stadium/stadium.php?id=1044

http://www.texasbob.com/stadium/stadium.php?id=1292

I’m also tossing in Morrison Stadium, Creighton U’s venue, as a scaled-down example of what I have in mind. Be sure to go through the picture gallery. Lightning Striker and I went to Thunder pre-season training camp just as the stadium was nearing completion and was first being used. We were both impressed.

http://www.gocreighton.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=1000&ATCLID=1150414

Frankly, the current NSC stadium looks like small potatoes. Again, not looking for big-league frills. Just an actual stadium with permanent sides.

Also, although it’s not technically part of the facility, the aforementioned “Sports-Themed Commercial Development Project” could, if done right, be a major draw for the far-flung fans that would enable them and their families to “make a day of it”.

]]> By: Super Rookie http://www.insidemnsoccer.com/2009/12/21/national-sports-center-takes-steps-to-moves-forward-with-pro-soccer-team/#comment-3992 Super Rookie Tue, 29 Dec 2009 17:42:53 +0000 http://www.insidemnsoccer.com/?p=12940#comment-3992 Scott, how would the NSC need to upgrade their facility? Scott, how would the NSC need to upgrade their facility?

]]> By: Scott Kerssen http://www.insidemnsoccer.com/2009/12/21/national-sports-center-takes-steps-to-moves-forward-with-pro-soccer-team/#comment-3991 Scott Kerssen Tue, 29 Dec 2009 17:31:16 +0000 http://www.insidemnsoccer.com/?p=12940#comment-3991 The biggest problem is not geography. The two biggest problems that the Thunder had in raising attendance were that, in their latter years, they were generally not successful on the pitch. And during the years they were successful on the pitch, they did not market themselves to the general public very well. If the new team plays well, the NSC upgrades it's facilities and they market the team correctly (which indirectly includes marketing the often-mentioned "sports-themed commercial development project" supposedly in the works,), plenty of people will come. Attendance figure analysis, time and again, shows that the number one factor that drives attendance in professional sports is on the field performance. To simplify it into an aphorism, "If you put on a great show and let everybody know, they will come." The biggest problem is not geography.

The two biggest problems that the Thunder had in raising attendance were that, in their latter years, they were generally not successful on the pitch. And during the years they were successful on the pitch, they did not market themselves to the general public very well.

If the new team plays well, the NSC upgrades it’s facilities and they market the team correctly (which indirectly includes marketing the often-mentioned “sports-themed commercial development project” supposedly in the works,), plenty of people will come.

Attendance figure analysis, time and again, shows that the number one factor that drives attendance in professional sports is on the field performance.

To simplify it into an aphorism, “If you put on a great show and let everybody know, they will come.”

]]> By: Cam Stoltz http://www.insidemnsoccer.com/2009/12/21/national-sports-center-takes-steps-to-moves-forward-with-pro-soccer-team/#comment-3987 Cam Stoltz Tue, 29 Dec 2009 14:29:36 +0000 http://www.insidemnsoccer.com/?p=12940#comment-3987 Chrös - Great points and so well said about what the NSC really provides. They cant move the facility, so if the "team" has to be there, it comes with baggage. Don't get me wrong, its a wonderful asset for teh state and has driven the history of the youth game to where it is today. But how many soccer families had season tickets or packages and where did they drive from? Did the Thunder sort their data by zip code? How will they market bread and butter attendance? Again, largetst professional athletic event outside the metrodome (was not the Vikings or teh Twins) was............................ Minnesota Kicks at Met Stadium in the 70's (Bloomington) and they didnt rely on youth players (MJSA) or their parents. The Kicks did everything right including 20,000 plus per home game. But they failed to secure T.V. revenue as the rest of the original NASL struggled and sank from. Location, Location, Location and and good business model. Chrös – Great points and so well said about what the NSC really provides. They cant move the facility, so if the “team” has to be there, it comes with baggage. Don’t get me wrong, its a wonderful asset for teh state and has driven the history of the youth game to where it is today. But how many soccer families had season tickets or packages and where did they drive from? Did the Thunder sort their data by zip code? How will they market bread and butter attendance? Again, largetst professional athletic event outside the metrodome (was not the Vikings or teh Twins) was………………………. Minnesota Kicks at Met Stadium in the 70′s (Bloomington) and they didnt rely on youth players (MJSA) or their parents. The Kicks did everything right including 20,000 plus per home game. But they failed to secure T.V. revenue as the rest of the original NASL struggled and sank from.

Location, Location, Location and and good business model.

]]> By: Super Rookie http://www.insidemnsoccer.com/2009/12/21/national-sports-center-takes-steps-to-moves-forward-with-pro-soccer-team/#comment-3968 Super Rookie Mon, 28 Dec 2009 17:34:28 +0000 http://www.insidemnsoccer.com/?p=12940#comment-3968 I think Chros has some great points. This also seems to be the plan of attack for the team as they market the squad for the future. I think Chros has some great points. This also seems to be the plan of attack for the team as they market the squad for the future.

]]> By: Chrös http://www.insidemnsoccer.com/2009/12/21/national-sports-center-takes-steps-to-moves-forward-with-pro-soccer-team/#comment-3967 Chrös Mon, 28 Dec 2009 16:48:22 +0000 http://www.insidemnsoccer.com/?p=12940#comment-3967 Oh come on. The team plays in the center of one of the largest youth soccer complexes in the country, and people think they shouldn't market their games to the 1000s of kids who play games there each summer? Talk about a poor business model. The biggest problem that NSC and in turn pro soccer in this state face is geography, and this is unlikely to change anytime soon. The NSC is on the fringe northern part of the Twin Cities, when the bulk of the population is on the south and western sides. Just a simple sampling from Google shows how far most people would have to drive to sit in a mostly empty stadium watching mostly unknown second-division soccer players: Downtown Minneapolis (17.5 miles, 22 minutes); Downtown St. Paul (20.6 miles, 24 minutes); Burnsville (33 miles, 35 minutes); Eden Prairie (34.5 miles, 36 minutes); Woodbury (27.5 miles, 29 minutes); Lakeville (42 miles, 48 minutes). I think we just have to accept that Blaine, Minn. is not Manchester, England. The number of people willing to drive to Blaine for a youth soccer tournament is vastly larger than the number of people willing to drive there for a second-division soccer team. Even the Los Angeles Galaxy had to appeal to youth teams to sell tickets to watch David Beckham and Landon Donovan play their same-city rivals in a playoff game, so it's not the end of the world if a decent chunk of marketing goes toward youth teams. Youth team attendance is a necessary evil in order for us to have a pro team here, but like others have said, it's highly doubtful that the team would turn its back on the adult fans who most passionately follow it. Oh come on. The team plays in the center of one of the largest youth soccer complexes in the country, and people think they shouldn’t market their games to the 1000s of kids who play games there each summer?

Talk about a poor business model.

The biggest problem that NSC and in turn pro soccer in this state face is geography, and this is unlikely to change anytime soon. The NSC is on the fringe northern part of the Twin Cities, when the bulk of the population is on the south and western sides. Just a simple sampling from Google shows how far most people would have to drive to sit in a mostly empty stadium watching mostly unknown second-division soccer players: Downtown Minneapolis (17.5 miles, 22 minutes); Downtown St. Paul (20.6 miles, 24 minutes); Burnsville (33 miles, 35 minutes); Eden Prairie (34.5 miles, 36 minutes); Woodbury (27.5 miles, 29 minutes); Lakeville (42 miles, 48 minutes).

I think we just have to accept that Blaine, Minn. is not Manchester, England. The number of people willing to drive to Blaine for a youth soccer tournament is vastly larger than the number of people willing to drive there for a second-division soccer team. Even the Los Angeles Galaxy had to appeal to youth teams to sell tickets to watch David Beckham and Landon Donovan play their same-city rivals in a playoff game, so it’s not the end of the world if a decent chunk of marketing goes toward youth teams.

Youth team attendance is a necessary evil in order for us to have a pro team here, but like others have said, it’s highly doubtful that the team would turn its back on the adult fans who most passionately follow it.

]]> By: Chris A http://www.insidemnsoccer.com/2009/12/21/national-sports-center-takes-steps-to-moves-forward-with-pro-soccer-team/#comment-3959 Chris A Mon, 28 Dec 2009 05:25:33 +0000 http://www.insidemnsoccer.com/?p=12940#comment-3959 Demolition Man - You are entirely right about *one* of the "main" reasons why the Thunder were (I originally typed "are") not supported by the so-called mainstream sports fan. I was referencing a specific segment of the population that already knew about the Thunder. I know people who could not disassociate supporting the Thunder with somehow supporting the MTA. Not me. I had two Thunder season tickets last Summer. It would take a seismic shift in American attitudes to ever get the type of coverage you reference. I am not going to hold my breath for it. Demolition Man -
You are entirely right about *one* of the “main” reasons why the Thunder were (I originally typed “are”) not supported by the so-called mainstream sports fan. I was referencing a specific segment of the population that already knew about the Thunder. I know people who could not disassociate supporting the Thunder with somehow supporting the MTA. Not me. I had two Thunder season tickets last Summer.

It would take a seismic shift in American attitudes to ever get the type of coverage you reference. I am not going to hold my breath for it.

]]> By: Demolition Man http://www.insidemnsoccer.com/2009/12/21/national-sports-center-takes-steps-to-moves-forward-with-pro-soccer-team/#comment-3946 Demolition Man Sun, 27 Dec 2009 09:21:45 +0000 http://www.insidemnsoccer.com/?p=12940#comment-3946 Chris A - No. The main reason why people did not go to Thunder games is simply because most people never even knew who the Thunder were. Its hard to get people to even go when you never heard about the team on KFAN, barely got a sentence write up in the Star Tribune, and at best would get 10 seconds of (marginal) coverage every once in a blue moon on KARE 11. Compare that to, say, if Brett Favre farted on field while throwing a touchdown to Sidney Rice would be on the front page of every paper, be talked about endlessly on KFAN, and all local news sports segments would show multi angles of Favre on the field taking said fart. Chris A -
No. The main reason why people did not go to Thunder games is simply because most people never even knew who the Thunder were. Its hard to get people to even go when you never heard about the team on KFAN, barely got a sentence write up in the Star Tribune, and at best would get 10 seconds of (marginal) coverage every once in a blue moon on KARE 11. Compare that to, say, if Brett Favre farted on field while throwing a touchdown to Sidney Rice would be on the front page of every paper, be talked about endlessly on KFAN, and all local news sports segments would show multi angles of Favre on the field taking said fart.

]]> By: Chris A http://www.insidemnsoccer.com/2009/12/21/national-sports-center-takes-steps-to-moves-forward-with-pro-soccer-team/#comment-3912 Chris A Wed, 23 Dec 2009 23:11:26 +0000 http://www.insidemnsoccer.com/?p=12940#comment-3912 MIAC Fan - I doubt there was an organized or even active attempt to "sabotage" the Thunder pro team due to the MTA. The word sabotage is too sinister for what I think probably happened. It was as simple as people thinking the Thunder and the MTA were one-and-the-same, and choosing not to be involved with or support something they thought was undermining "community" based soccer clubs. (This thread is not about an analysis of the community club v. MTA debate.) A professional team that has a completely separate identity from a "MTA" type organization is probably better for the professional team's marketing to the entire soccer community. People did not GO to Thunder games BECAUSE of the MTA, but they may have decided NOT TO GO based on the MTA. Fair or unfair. MIAC Fan -
I doubt there was an organized or even active attempt to “sabotage” the Thunder pro team due to the MTA. The word sabotage is too sinister for what I think probably happened. It was as simple as people thinking the Thunder and the MTA were one-and-the-same, and choosing not to be involved with or support something they thought was undermining “community” based soccer clubs. (This thread is not about an analysis of the community club v. MTA debate.)

A professional team that has a completely separate identity from a “MTA” type organization is probably better for the professional team’s marketing to the entire soccer community.

People did not GO to Thunder games BECAUSE of the MTA, but they may have decided NOT TO GO based on the MTA. Fair or unfair.

]]> By: MIAC Fan http://www.insidemnsoccer.com/2009/12/21/national-sports-center-takes-steps-to-moves-forward-with-pro-soccer-team/#comment-3911 MIAC Fan Wed, 23 Dec 2009 22:24:52 +0000 http://www.insidemnsoccer.com/?p=12940#comment-3911 BQ, I understand what you're saying but it's terribly shortsighted for all those clubs to look at the players as property and then willingly attempt sabotage the only pro soccer team in town. This is a free society...and a free market society and parents will do whatever they think is best for their kids. For other clubs or adults to think those players are their possessions is really backwards thinking. Other top clubs in other states have been doing what MTA is trying to do for years without this type of backlash, at least that I'm aware of and I've been involved in soccer for over 20 years. We'll remain very backwards in the region and national level in US if we continue to treat players like they are a club's "property" and do everything we can to undermine professional soccer and the top youth clubs in the state. Just my opinion for what it's worth. BQ,
I understand what you’re saying but it’s terribly shortsighted for all those clubs to look at the players as property and then willingly attempt sabotage the only pro soccer team in town.
This is a free society…and a free market society and parents will do whatever they think is best for their kids.
For other clubs or adults to think those players are their possessions is really backwards thinking. Other top clubs in other states have been doing what MTA is trying to do for years without this type of backlash, at least that I’m aware of and I’ve been involved in soccer for over 20 years.
We’ll remain very backwards in the region and national level in US if we continue to treat players like they are a club’s “property” and do everything we can to undermine professional soccer and the top youth clubs in the state.
Just my opinion for what it’s worth.

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