Carolina RailHawks 4th NASL Team to be Propped up by Traffic Sports
News was circulating last week concerning the Carolina RailHawks and a potential investor in a deal that ended up collapsing. According to sources, the deal would have brought in an investor that would have taken Selby Wellman, owner of the RailHawks, off the role of primary owner.
According to those same sources, Wellman had lost nearly $4 million on the team over the last three years. Wellman, who had stated previously he was looking for a new investor for his team, could no longer sustain those sorts of losses. With the collapsed deal, Wellman contacted both the NASL and the USSF to notify them he needed help if he was to keep the RailHawks up and running for the 2011 season.
Rishi Sehgal, who was named Director of Business Development and Legal Affairs of the North American Soccer League (NASL) at the November AGM, confirmed the situation.
“There are a lot of different scenarios on the table but nothing has been decided yet one way or another,” said Sehgal, who spoke to IMS by phone on Friday evening. “We are in discussions with Carolina. They are definitely not going to fold up. The League is committed to find a way to help Selby (Wellman) out and keep Carolina alive.”
Selby Wellman
Wellman founded the RailHawks in 2006 and played their first game in 2007 under USL-1 (2nd division). But Wellman was one of the leaders of the runaway group called the Team Owners Association (TOA) which fought to get sanctioning of 2nd division soccer away from USL and into the hands of the TOA spinoff league called the NASL. He and the other founding members felt the team owners needed more control of the league they were investing heavily in.
In 2008, Wellman took in new investors, including Canadian Bob Young, founder and CEO of LULU.com and owner of the CFL Hamilton Tiger-Cats. Dr. Paul Singh also became an investor in the RailHawks. Since those new investors came aboard the team has invested heavily in player personnel and hired Martin Rennie as coach of the team.
The RailHawks have been in contention for the league title the last two seasons and finished first in the USSF D2 Pro League’s NASL Conference this past season with a 13-9-8 record and finished 2nd overall behind the Rochester Rhinos with 47 points. Carolina made it beyond the first round of the playoffs for the first time ever this season, defeating first Minnesota and then Montreal, both in a home and away series. The RailHawks played the Puerto Rico Islanders in the first leg of the two legged final. They were defeated 2-0 by the Islanders in Bayamón and then tied 1-1 at home the following week to lose 3-1 on aggregate. But the deep playoff run and 2nd place finish was a new high mark for the organization.
“We knew, we knew,” said Aaron Davidson, CEO of the NASL, President of Miami FC and Vice President of Traffic Sports USA. “We haven’t worked hard for 4 or 5 years not to get this thing (NASL) launched. Anschutz, Kraft and Hunt suffered a lot to get MLS to where it is today. In our case we have Traffic behind it and we’ll do what we have to do. At least in Brian and Selby Wellman we have people who want to do the right thing. Their number one investor didn’t work out. We’re going to help them out. They’ve invested for five years now and there’s been a lot of growing pains. He’s (Selby) learned a lot.
“It’s really, really hard to get the right ownership mix at a league level and a team level until you have something you can sell and I mean really sell,” continued Davidson as he tried to explain the complexity of getting new owners in a league that has yet to play an official game. “Understand that we’re in this for the long haul and the owners that you see today will most likely not be the same owners you see in a couple of years. If we’re going to ratchet this thing up towards MLS standards then we’re going to have to diversify ownerships.”
Selby Wellman was contacted for comment but did not return the calls.
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And the Great Davidson said:
“Understand that we’re in this for the long haul and the owners that you see today will most likely not be the same owners you see in a couple of years.”
So NASL admits there will be massive turnover with its league. That is sustainability? So Traffic, a Brazilian media company that competes with SUM will now take on the possible funding of 50% of the NASL teams?
This is a slap in the face to the USSF standards, which promoted long term sustainabilty and individual team owner financial responsibility. Is this really what USSF provisionally approved as a league. Did the application really state that Carolina would fold if it did not find investors, but hey, wait, let’s call this team one that is financially sound?
I wonder how the USSF Board members will look at this during the next meeting? I further wonder how this all really looks to the USSF Board members in light of the fact that prior to the vote, Traffic gave a check “in the spirit of supporting” the World Cup bid.
This is American soccer, founded on American principles?
Mr. Davidson, what is Traffic’s real agenda? Will USSF really allow American D2 soccer to be owned by a foreign owned company? Are we that desperate?
Absolutely unbelievable.
Bart-
Yawn.
Bart, you do know that 6 of the 10 original MLS teams was owned by AEG and that 3 of the others were owned by the hunt family. NASL seems to be following MLS as an example to start their League. That is not a bad way to start. NASL may fail or it may succeed, but is too early to tell. And the assumption that Traffic will attack SUM Turf. I highly doubt it because NASL is trying o build a strong relationship with MLS.
So the single-entity system which the NASL acolytes like to disparage is pretty much the only thing propping the league up now? Except instead of shrewd business men like Hunt and Anschutz paying the bills with the hope of finding more investors and expanding the league, the NASL has Traffic, which really only wants to put players under contract so they can hold them hostage in the hopes of getting a trial with a second division team in Portugal.
The US needs to continue to develop lower division soccer, but this exercise is showing that sharks like Traffic are not the ones who should be involved in it. I bet you could get good odds on the NASL season ending early this year.
I have been visiting blog for a few months and I am sick of Bart. Some fat old man with absolutely no life. I hope his wife beats him.
I wonder what Traffic is getting out of all of this?
Why are they funding multiple teams, when they apparently haven’t done much to market Miami FC?
What is their goal?
“I wonder what Traffic is getting out of all of this?
Why are they funding multiple teams, when they apparently haven’t done much to market Miami FC?
What is their goal?”
Transfer fees. They represent players and run events. They want to hit it big with transfer fees and want to control as much turf as they can in doing so. Paying for the league is just the cost of doing business if they can sell a few players overseas. Traffic isn’t an owner. They are an event manager and player representative.
I’ve heard that before: that Miami FC is essentially a reserve team for their talent.
Propping up half of a league seems like a pretty expensive way to field a reserve team.
It just seems like they must have other goals, as well, or they’d find a cheaper way to do things.
Daniel,
Actually, the fat old man is me with no life sitting at my computer making phone calls to team owners and league officials and typing at my keyboard for hours on end.
Yelling at Bart isn’t going to change the fact that this league appears to be fatally flawed.
The Carolina owner has been one of the most vocal critics of the USSF Federation and the USL League, and one of the leaders of the NASL movement. The fact that he lacks the confidence in the NASL and his team to continue to invest his own money is extremely revealing.
There are several groups that are willing to run teams in this league with someone else’s money but not too many Amercian investors. In fact, just one by my math (Tampa Bay). Who knows, maybe Traffic is funding them too…
And please stop with the comparisons to AEG, the Hunts, and the MLS!
Oh, BTW, Miami FC has said previously that until their team was involved with a league that they have some control over (NASL) they weren’t going to invest a lot of time or money into marketing. In case you missed it:
http://www.nasl.com/article/club-partners-with-pmi
There is of course no guarantee that the South Florida market will work. It didn’t with MLS although you will find many who felt MLS screwed up in their marketing of that area. But one thing is for sure, Miami FC which will be called the Strikers this coming year will have a major media and tickets sales push like they’ve never seen from Miami FC.
Hitchcock is very well respected and has quite a history with MLS. He will be working with Mitts who went from Dallas to Tampa last season and will be joined by the very respected Mark Washo who has been with the Washington Freedom most recently.
Playbook Management International will be working with all the teams in the league as “League services” much like what MLS has done modeling themselves after the NBA model.
I think this is no small or insignificant thing and expect a support system for all NASL teams that will be pretty important this year.
Mr. Blodgett,
I am also rich and balding and very comfortable at this stage in my life. And yes, my wife beats me on a regular basis, it keeps me much more subdued than when I was practicing law. You might want to ask your wife, or in your case, that significant other (wink, wink) to do the same.
BQ:
Traffic funding 4 teams plus the front office for NASL and now, plus the marketing that should have been in place all along? Not putting money into the Miami team is pure smoke screen and bad business. The team makes money on home games, not the league they are associated with.
By default, Traffic has to have a support system for all NASL teams, it is a requirement of the USSF standards.
Davidson’s other quote, “If we’re going to ratchet this thing up towards MLS standards then we’re going to have to diversify ownerships” is rather interesting as well.
So he want standards similar to MLS? Meaning those standards must be higher than D2 and that requires diversification of the ownerships. Meaning that they don’t believe in their current model either.
I wonder how MLS will feel about having an NASL with standards the same as MLS? That sounds like direct competition for markets, and direct competition for the same owners that would otherwise be looking at MSL. Garber will be most pleased.
Bart,
Don’t put words in others mouths. Davidson has a lot of respect for Garber and what he’s done and he has no illusions about being at that same level. He does feel that if NASL is to succeed they need to keep their standards high. Whether that can actually be achieved is another thing. But I’ve talked to Mr. Davidson about this and I’ve seen what he’s had to say about it on other sites.
BQ,
I understand the party line statement. But his quote is pretty clear… that he wants to increase the NASL standards to that of MLS. That is a little different than recognizing that D2 is different from D1.
And we all respect Mr. Garber, Mr. Gulati, et al.
Keeping standards high and elevating them to be equal to MLS are two entirely different concepts.
any word when NASL will start creating a front office? I would think that would be pretty important they get all that up and running as it is also a big part of D2 sanctioning.
One month to hire all the positions they need to have for the league offices (and finding quality people, relocating them,) hell even getting the phone turned on can take some time
Mikey: I hear Jeff Cooper is looking for a job. Maybe the NASL can give him a position. On 2nd thought, I think the NASL wants to stay in business.
So, let me just make sure I have this straight:
NASL – Traffic owns a team in Miami, gave start-up capital to Atlanta, and is funding Minnesota and Carolina while they sort out their investor search, some of which (who knows the exact percentage) was contributed by the Ottawa folks as a way to get the league stabilized before Ottawa comes in in 2013.
USL – Forsakes its basic element of “regional” divisions for the sake of a quick buck in LA, ignores the fact that owners in Orlando and Rochester now have a whole other travel problem to deal with that rivals any trip to Edmonton, and rides high on the fact that travel will be “subsidized” by a nearly bankrupt Puerto Rican government and an already-bankrupt Antiguan government.
Without devolving into comments about who may be fat, bald, or ugly, and certainly without falling back on the “I’M A LAWYER, SIR” response (I am as well, so using that bit won’t give you some false sense of superiority here), I need someone to explain how one is better than the other.
We can sit here and be NASL/USL fanboys all we like, and poke and prod at the other organization day and night. But all that should matter here is the team we personally support has a league to play in. Just for a few weeks, I’d love for everyone to just chill out and let the leagues do their thing for a season. Arguing here like right-wing/left-wing commenters on a newspaper site accomplishes nothing.
Of course, that would rob BQ of some pageviews, so…yanno…as you were.
@Bart: So, can I guess that my kid won’t be playing in the super fun and germ infested plastic ball pit at IKEA anytime soon, huh? Those Swedes!
Are you with me in the boycott? I’m gonna throw the first molotov cocktail.
What is wrong with this picture?
McDonalds’ Playland over the high end “Smalland” Euros any day of the week!
We have to draw a line, somewhere.
Just funnin’, Bro.
“I have been visiting blog for a few months and I am sick of YANKI. Some MIDDLE-AGED man with absolutely no life. I hope his wife beats him.”
-Danny B
(I fixed your post–Happy Holidays to You and Yours–
And “yes” she does take a swing at me from time to time.
Hope that knowledge increases your Holiday joy)
“LA…rides high on the fact that travel will be “subsidized” by a nearly bankrupt Puerto Rican government”.
Nicely written, I just want to point out that FPF is not an agency of the Puerto Rican government anymore than the USSF is of the US Government (I’m way to lazy to look up the subsidy CSA-Canadian relationship)
Not trying to nitpick but I don’t want people to get the wrong impression.
Wow, a lot to digest here…..I think Steve probably had the best post (although the fat, old, husband beating stuff did provide a chuckle) so far. We definitely could go round and round, back and forth, night and day about both leagues, and that’s with Kenn T. not even getting in some shots on this thread yet! LOL
Steve’s point is a good one – what I am looking forward to most is taking my son to watch the Strikers at Lockhart, just like my dad took me to say Cubillas, Hudson, Mueller, and all the rest. Having your local team playing in a league, any league, funded however it needs to be funded, operated however it needs to be operated at this point is what it really comes down to.
Both models are looking troubled at the moment for different reasons. It is my earnest hope that both can right the ship over the next two years, grow their fanbases, and really start to breathe some life into the lower levels of soccer in North America like we’ve never soon before. Each league is facing some difficult obstacles already.
I for one am tired of seeing the endless cycle of crashing franchises. Davidson and USSF are absolutely right – rigid standards need to be in place in order for these lower divisions to have any hope of surviving and thriving within the North American pyramids. But the question we are now at the doorstep of trying to answer is, will it work? Is North America ready to support D2 and D3 at the level they need to be operated at to survive long term.
As far as teh NASL goes, they basically have a two year window to get themselves going in the right direction I think. We now see that, at least short term, traffic is committed to backing the league to the extent of keeping it from failing. It would make very little sense to take these steps now if you weren’t comitted to it for at least the first couple of years. I think we will see at least 8 teams in operation for 2011 and 2012. What happens from there will most likely be dependent on two things – 1. new investors being found for at least one or two of the current ownership situations in MN, ATL, NC (or possibly STL being a sub for one of those if a new investor is found there) and 2. increased fan support.
@BQ – Those of us down here in South Florida are praying you are right about the hiring of PMI translating into a marketing campaign done as it should be in our area in support of the Strikers.
IF (HUGE IF) they name the team as they should, Ft. Lauderdale Strikers, and they DO follow through with a solid marketing campaign, I’ll say right now that I would predict this franchise to immediately jump to the top of the league in attendance, and average more per game then the last 3 years combined.
Not all of the other franchises have the same history to draw on, except the Rowdies (they have to get back the use of the name!). But it certainly appears that Traffic is determined to give NASL a chance to work, and having PMI available to work with all of the league’s teams would certainly be a positive step in helping with a key issue for lower division soccer over the years – marketing.
Interesting conversation. I did not like Daniel Blodgett’s post (semi-attack on Bart). I frequent this site precisely because the posters did not use that type of attitude or language. I hope the high standard of respect is maintained as it was in the past.
Everyone enjoys the fun jabs from time to time, but this post had crossed the line.
I feel that USSF will likely watch all the D2 (and hopefully D3) developments very closely for the next few years. I don’t think they’ll allow NASL to be controlled by Traffic or any other entity (person) for that matter.
As a couple of the other posters pointed out. We can argue all we want but the end of the day, we are just fans, so our first job is to Support the Local Team. See you all the games!
fotbalist,
I was going to call him out and then decided not to because it was presented in a (sort of) funny way.
Traffic Sports please come help AC St Louis!!!
And or the intangible value of eventually find fast talent that may be sold to recoup any loss incurred, or profit (novel idea) in what really is a minor league setting. Happens all the time in the real world. Long term gain, short term loss. Could someone outside North America actually see the value in soccer talent here????? No, that would be as nutz as Americans investing in Premier League teams.
Is there a solid, verifiable record of Traffic selling US talent to Europe yet? Players and Traffic make more money that way. And this isn’t a bad thing, btw.
@Wayne – You are 100% correct. If the way NASL survives is as a showcase for young players that cut their teeth here and then move on to bigger and better things, I see no problem with this at all. In fact, it’s probably one of the few scenarios that the league can stay in business over the long haul. I think trying to develop some kind of relationship with MLS is a very smart move as well.
We don’t seem to be at the threshold of D2 and lower divisions of soccer really taking a quantum leap forward in mattering much to the sporting public in North America. With that being the case, the lower divisions need something to keep them relevant. Developing young talent is an obvious thing to look at of course.
I for one enjoyed watching Paulo Jr. play for Miami this past year. I would be curious as to what some of you fans of other teams thought of him. We would certainly love to have him back wearing Strikers hoops next year, but at the same time I think I would be just as happy to see RSL or some other team acquire him as well. Having players move on and up from D2 helps to validate the teams, players, and organizations at this level as having worth outside of just the fun of being able to come out to a game of course.
It’s difficult to get southern’s in general interested in anything, but basketball or football. Mostly college sports hold their interest. The locals with money, can’t seem to grasp the huge financial opportunities of soccer locally and internationally. Theirs potentially a huge market locally and internationally to grow the sport in this country. It appears an international owner is the best alternative for long term sustainability.
Paulo was a beast — and this is coming from a Rowdies fan.
I sort of like what Traffic is doing right now. The economy — and the state of lower division soccer in the U.S. — is such that not a lot of owners are going to take a chance on a D-2 team right now. These teams (Atlanta, Minnesota and Carolina) have a rich history and with some help could be back on stable ground with independent owner in no time.
I think the NASL will be in good shape, but the bigger question is marketing. What will they do as far as a TV contract and when will they improve their horrid website? Right now I see USLPRO — with a decent website and a national TV deal with FSC expected — crushing the NASL in this regard.
Both the NASL and USL are in bad shape. The USL will continue to be its clueless self and barely survive as a D3. They are good at barely hanging on. NASL will likely go out in a whimper after all its talk. They are on even shakier ground than I first thought.
Also please stop comparing it to early MLS. The businessmen behind MLS were only willing to prop up teams and lose money because they could they could see a future. The goal, which they are still years away from, was a first division league that could take its place among the better leagues in Europe and even the MLB, NBA,and NFL at him. What future is for the NASL? Minor league soccer? Nobody is going to waste money on American minor league soccer. The NASL failure to line up investors will kill it. We can see it coming a mile away. Traffic will not throw away money for more than a year.
@Wayne – There is no track record of Traffic or D2 historically selling a number of American players abroad. This was already discussed on bigsoccer and everyone agreed it was a pipe-dream that NASL clubs could sustain themselves through transfer fees. First off, no real talent worth his salt would sign with a D2 club. Nor will any Euro club pay good money for a player from the hinterlands of American soccer. There are too many better paying options for these players than to sign with Mickey Mouse teams. Including heading to Europe at a young age. Second, MLS is beginning to take developing youth players more seriously with academics, roster expansion, and the reserve league. They are pretty much going to own the youth development system in this country with 20 teams. The player development route is now a dead issue for D2.
Holy crap, Dave! You’ve got it all figured out. Also, if it was discussed on Big Soccer well then it’s a done deal.
While you do have some valid points I think you are really missing the boat on a few things here.
Those 20 MLS reserve teams playing will be playing meaningless games in a meaningless league with all young talent and honestly it isn’t a lot different from a glorified youth club system.
As I am sure you know, Spain and Germany, and particularly in Spain where the technical level is much higher and emphasized a lot more, the reserve teams play in the lower divisions so they can learn about playing meaningful game against veteran players. Also, playing against teams that have a reason to win a game (staying up, promotion or pay raises or transfers to better teams) is a lot tougher than playing against a bunch of other young inexperienced players as talented as they may (or may not) be.
I think you underestimate the importance of having a wide net of soccer teams throughout a country which overall raises the awareness and overall skill level of all players and gives younger players something to strive for.
Lastly, I love to watch live soccer. Even if it’s not EPL, Serie A or La Liga level. Even if it’s not MLS. It’s live and it’s my team. I’m not freaking driving to Chicago (550 miles) 5 or 6 times a season to watch the fire play. I follow them. But I will never be as involved with that team as I am with my own local team whether that be PDL, USL, or NASL.
Bart, though we’ve had disagreements many times in the comments here (and I suspect on at least one message board), I’ve come to respect you greatly. I don’t say that simply to placate you either. I really do believe that you want what’s best for the sport in the US at heart.
That said, I’m disappointed more than I’ve been that your initial comment on this board devolves so quickly into the xenophobic droll I’ve read all across the vast interwebs. You really can do better than “let’s not let some Brazilian company come in hur and run ar league!” The problems with the NASL and their current ownership groups are very real ones; even as a supporter of their cause, I understand that you don’t need to embellish.
But can’t we just let them play a game? Can’t we give them even a tiny chance to make a run at D2 soccer before decrying their failure?
Given their comments (which you and I have both read right here at IMSoccer News) I think it’s clear that NASL are not trying to compete with MLS, but that instead they’re trying to hold themselves to a higher standard than they currently do. Isn’t that (however altruistic) in the best interest of the sport?
Please. We may be all deeply disappointed in their efforts in one year’s time, but let’s at least give them a shot. If Traffic, however nefariously they may be painted by some, are willing to keep D2 soccer afloat for even one more year, I’m willing to let them try.
Will this affect the “provisional sanctioning” for NASL? Hopefully news like this won’t make USSF go back to the drawing board.
I really liked Brian’s post about having an emotional attachment to a team, and the importance that alone brings to growing awareness, players, support, etc… But one major issue that Dave missed was that Division II teams need to have academies of their own as well. That is a whole other can of husband abuse in of itself. I live in Alberta, and fully grasp the reality that the Canadian teams and players need American leagues and teams to develop our players further. The NASL, MLS, and PDL are three USSF relegated leagues that have Canadian teams with a history of fan devotion. Right now, Canada’s economy is awesome, and I figure that any way the leagues need to find money to stay afloat, be it, Brazilian money or Canadian expansion then hurray.
fella’s wonder how many of you have been to the caribbean or even know about football on the islands, some clown is saying Barracuda and the PR teams are owned by the governments well how stupid can a person be. Oh yes we have 3 top class stadiums on Antigua which makes some of yours look like shit……..leave my team alone and you might learn a thing or two but hey why knock us – merry christmas.
“Bart, you do know that 6 of the 10 original MLS teams was owned by AEG and that 3 of the others were owned by the hunt family.”
Not at launch, they weren’t. At one point, yes, but not at launch.
In 1996, MLS had 10 teams and AEG only owned one (Colorado). Actually, “AEG” may not even have existed then. Three teams were league-owned, but there were six ownership groups for the other seven original clubs.
Cudafan: Welcome to the site.
I’m sure that some of us would appreciate your insights on Barracuda.
Maybe you could help shed some light on why your club failed to live up to the financial commitment that it had with Montreal and Charleston (the friendlies–the Montreal one being even a bigger deal because they travelled down to play you guys).
Do you really think that they have the money required to play in this sort of league (mostly I am referring to travel expenses)?
The guy that you were referring to didn’t say that the teams were owned by the government. He used the words “subsidized” when referring to travel expenses. There is a big difference.
I don’t run the site but just a friendly word: We usually don’t curse here.
Nice to see that you have passion for your club and hope to see you around more.
Maybe you can checkout http://www.usl.discussions.com
I am sure that some of the fans there would love to have you participate because you are the only Barracuda fan that I have seen post in a forum, so you would be the “go-to” guy when it came to people learning about the club.
Merry Christmas.
KT, as always thanks for sharing your outstanding knowledge of the history of the game.
Yankiboy, I couldn’t have said that better myself. Thank you.
Cuda fan, we have a number of very knowledgeable Puerto Rican football supporters who read and contribute through comment on this site. They keep us up to date with the goings on in PR and for that I’m very grateful.
Thanks for reading IMS and contributing and we would love to continue to hear your constructive comments without attacks on people or cursing.
@BQ – Good rebuttal to some of Dave’s comments. If we look at the landscape of pro soccer from a worldwide perspective, there is certainly plenty of opportunity for NASL D2 players to develop and learn and move on to any number of places. Traffic is an international organization. If their business model is simply to develop players and look to transfer them to the highest bidder, then there are marketplaces at all levels of soccer all over the world. It just seemed that in his haste to bash NASL, Dave was a little short-sighted in his thinking.
I think the development of a true soccer pyramid in this country for its own sake is a good part of the reason to do it as well. And your point about being able to go out and watch YOUR OWN local team, no matter what division they play in, is the best point of all. We can’t all be MLS blessed cities, so I am glad for NASL and Traffic doing what they can to try and fill in the D2 gap, and most of all, bring back my beloved Strikers!!!
@Daniel B. – Always nice to have some Canadian perspective. I think Canada will be a key area for expansion of D2 and D3, as long as the CSA allows it. I would really like to see the NASL, USSF, and CSA be able to work together to help both countries develop young players and create a strong North American system of D2 soccer. I think someday, given fan support and all parties involved working together, the NASL could function as a two conference league, one Canadian, one American, with each country’s federation sanctioning their respective conference. That’s down the road thinking, but a good example of the type of potential the league COULD someday have.
@KT – Kenn, I’m waiting for you to actually say something that is even just slightly positive about the NASL, just once. Hopefully I won’t fall out of my chair and bust my head if it does ever happen…..
@Cudafan – As yankiboy and BQ said, we would all love to have you share some of your insight into the soccer scene in your country and Barracuda FC specifically. Many of us see your team as a real unknown factor on every level going into USL Pro’s inaugural season, largely due to the aforementioned “issues” with the friendlies, and the potential problems they could portend.
@Brian – Clearly you have some emotional ties to this story. Sorry if we at bigsoccer aren’t experts in minor league soccer like you. But you didn’t refute anything I said about transfer fees to Euro clubs being a viable source of income for D2 clubs. Care to respond?
With all due respect, I think I have it figured out. I’ve seen enough of what Traffic has done in Miami. Brian, you want NASL to succeed so you can watch local soccer. Good for you. But I have no horse in this race and can see I can see a ship sinking.
The MLS reserve league will likely expand as the years go by. At this point, given how shaky the future of D2 looks, it might be the highest level of soccer under D1 in the years to come if these leagues don’t get their acts together(not holding my breathe). So your comparisons with Spain and Germany are just laughable. Those countries have a strong pyramid under D1. So they can provide good competition for D1′s reserve teams. We don’t have that here and probably never will. That’s why it was important for MLS to step in and create their own.
Dave,
I have passion about the game just as you do and we all do. That passion just may come in different ways. I cut my soccer teeth on the old NASL, played for years and coached for almost 20 years. So yes, I have emotional ties as do you otherwise you wouldn’t be so sure of yourself. My only point is the older I get (53) the more I realize I don’t have all the answers and when I think I do I am almost always shown another side to the story. Thats why we have forums such as this. Not to teach others lessons but to share your side of the story and for others to share theirs. We learn from each.
BTW, as I have printed here numerous times, both the USL and NASL talked to MLS last summer about partnering with them in the future for players or possibly reserve leagues partnerships. Two things from that:
#1) Garber doesn’t want to spend any money on investing in minor league soccer and with the small to no profits his own teams are making at the moment and I understand that.
#2) To prove your point and as Aaron Davidson of the NASL candidly pointed out in an interview with Ben Roycroft, Garber wants lower league soccer to get their act together first. I agree but I don’t think it’s the stretch to do so that you seem to believe. I think the biggest issue I have with all of this is I have a feeling that you have sold off D2 without really knowing a lot about it.
“I said about transfer fees to Euro clubs being a viable source of income for D2 clubs. Care to respond?”
Did I not say you have some valid points in your argument? But remember, there have been a few players who have gotten fees for moving up to MLS. Not the big money fees your talking about but show me how many MLS players have gotten big number fees for going to MLS. This is going to take time. Again, the more players playing, the wider the net, the more gems there will be that pop up. Is it sustainable to have a wide net or a pyramid system of pro teams in the US? You say no. I say the jury’s still out and if everyone threw up their hands and said this isn’t going to work, Marcos would never have started the USL in the late 80′s and we wouldn’t have MLS in the 90′s. It always takes guys and gals that see the glass half full along with great vision to make something happen.
I’m not sure how old you are or how long you’ve followed MLS but they used to have partnerships with USL-1 teams. The problem was, it was much to easy for an MLS team to ship a player down to get in some games and then call him up just before the USL-1 playoffs. Which in the end didn’t benefit the D-2 team much at all. Again this season there were numerous players that were sent to USSF D2 Pro League teams to get in some games and who helped them through the playoffs.
I have a question for you. What town do you live in, and have you ever lived in a town with D2 soccer or watched it on a regular basis?
I could go on here for hours but I have a feeling it’s not going to change anything about the way you feel about this because you have your mind made up. Again, I’m not totally refuting your beliefe that it’s going to be tough road. But I do think you have undersold the product which I have a feeling you really don’t know a lot about. I guess we will just have to agree to disagree.
Lastly, to allow you to understand that I don’t think everything is rosy and that things do need to change, look to your right on the sidebar and click on the icon, Rethinking D2 Soccer in North America. It was a rather lengthy but thorough four part series I put together in what others who are familiar with D2 soccer believe needs to happen for it to be successful.
Sorry to everyone else here if I got lengthy and too focused on our friend Dave. Stand down.
@Dave…I waiting for your volley (response), Playah?
@Brian… I think the guy who runs this website should ban you for a couple days for being “lengthy and too focused”. Stop messing up a perfectly good message board with thoughts that indicate some sort of reflection. You are ruining the website!
thanks guys and sorry for the small abuse – yes we are unkown but I think the locals who the club have made very carefull calculations apart from being die hard soccer nuts, on the other hand we live from tourism so even you now know of the island LOL which is an objective acheived.
team will be performing and show what the smaller islands have in talent as a majority of the players come from the eastern caribbean islands, english coach with fantical fans and great stadium.
on the montreal thing we locals are not sure what was said but – lets say the guy across the border should speak with a straight tonge.
soccer on island is the weekend lime with double header on both saturday and sunday in the stadium for the premier league (10 teams), tuesday & thursday div 1 (16 teams) in the village team own grounds,monday,wednesday and friday the same with div 2 ( 18 teams in 2 zones),
school’s soccer leagues and abfa u16,u13 + juniors, then the females which must add is kinda slow at present.
so you can see lots of football and oh yes the FA cup at the end of the season which is febuary, the ‘ Silver and Blacks ‘ will have the support of the fans and I am sure they get a little help with taxes from the government but fellas as mentioned look at the marketing it brings us – so yes let them get back some cents.
wish you all seasons greeting and a wonderfull festive period……in the COLD…..lol
Did the Silverbacks make a ton of money off of Mac Kandji?
There is money in developing these players and if you find a good one you can make your investment back 10fold.
Some money, not a ton of money. $175,000.00 And it was a weird deal cause they were closing down the Silverbacks so the sold him to the Railhawks in which Boris also had some money invested in. So he was able to pick up the fees that way. Otherwise I believe he would have been a free agent more or less.
@Dave – Dude, obvious much? BQ and anyone else taking the time to engage in posting and responding here most certainly have “emotional ties” to the game, our teams, and everything that goes along with it. Having a horse in the race we care about is the whole crux of your stance? Really? We’re too punch drunk in love with our teams to see a train wreck coming to finish us? LOL All you’re doing is theorizing about something that is already blatantly apparent. The ship is sinking? As yankiboy said, waiting for the follow up on that one.
NASL is not in an ideal place right now. Even the staunchest of its supporters should be able to readily admit this. Rochester and Austin self-relegating certainly hurt their first year picture. Absolutely no offense to the Baltimore and St. Louis fans out there, I feel for you, but them being out of the picture for 2011 is probably a good thing for the league. IF they can reorganize and get stable for 2012, great. If not, they are viable cities for future ownership groups who have the money and ambition to give it a proper go and learn from the mistakes made in these cities in 2010.
You are so quick to condemn the NASL before it even gets off the ground, and yet you’re giving the MLS reserve league a “will likely expand as the years go by” stamp of approval? Hello? Did we not see this episode before? How did it work out the first time around? What is so great about the “new and improved” reserve league that it will suddenly “expand” and be a hit this time? They are a few practice games that will have a fraction of the attendance of even the worst D2 game.
BQ didn’t anywhere make it sound like our disfunctional soccer pyramid was anything like the top countries of the world. Hell, there’s probably a lot of third world countries with better organized 2nd and 3rd divisions then us. But according to “geniuses” like you and Kenn, that means we should just close up shop and forget even trying. You don’t want to watch and be a part of D2 soccer? That’s cool. Have fun over at the MLS reserve squad match. If you sign a waiver, maybe they’ll let you play fullback if someone gets hurt. But we’ll keep right on cheering our teams, and trying to get everyone we know to come out and have fun supporting them along with us.
@Cudafan: Thanks for sharing some things about the club and football in the country. I am looking forward to seeing what Barracuda FC does this season. I think that there is a lot of curiosity about the club, not unlike there was when Puerto Rico Islanders and Bermuda Hogges entered the USL several years ago.
I think that the rivalry between the Puerto Rican clubs and Barracuda is going to be intense. Really intense.
I have been told the Battery made close to $200K, with a sell-on clause, on Osvaldo Alonso’s move to Seattle but can get anyone to go on the record.
I was also told the Battery made aroudn $40K on Omar Daley going to Bradford City in England.
Those are the only two I can think of off the top of my head for the Battery.
@Strikers Retun – AC STL mave never return. Cooper is finished in St. Louis, really before he ever got started. He’s burned way too many bridges the last couple of years, plus he NEVER had the financially backing to begin with…..for an MLS team, or a we as can all see, an NASL team either.
To be honest, from what I know is currently taking place, St. Louis has a much better chance to get an MISL team rather than an NASL team for next season.
Only issue Brian, in general, the average outdoor soccer fan is not the same person that goes to an indoor game. It’s a very different game. I’m sure you know that well working for an indoor team.
Yeah, I gotta think the AC STL fans are much more likely to support the PDL Lions now right? If they weren’t already. Maybe with enough support they could move up to USL Pro at some point. Sure hope someone in St. Louis can step up to the plate and get a team back into NASL though. I think the league would certainly like to have a team there.