Phil Rawlins Discusses Orlando City FC and their Talks with MLS
Erika Esola of the Seminole Chronicle recently interviewed Orlando City FC owner and former owner of the Austin Aztex, Phil Rawlins. As I’ve been saying for a while now Orlando City is closer to MLS than a lot of people have been giving them credit for. Whether you agreed with the way Rawlins handled the shutting down of the Aztex and the starting of his new team in Orlando can still be debated. One thing that is not open for discussion is his success in his first year of USL PRO. The team sold out one of their tiers of executive seating and averaged 5,415 fans per game with over 11,000 showing up at the Citrus Bowl for the USL PRO championship game.
Like Austin the team has reached out to the community and has also done a excellent job of building relationships. The organization also did well with sponsorships in their first year which is not always easy with product of soccer in the U.S.
In this 3-part interview Rawlins talks about the new business partners of Orlando City and why they wanted to start fresh in Orlando. “Texas doesn’t need, and isn’t going to get, a third MLS team,” Rawlins told the Seminole Chronicle. “With Orlando, the opportunity is there. It’s a tremendous marketplace.”
Rawlins has said from the beginning that the startup venture in Orlando was strategic and his eyes have always been on the MLS prize.
“They’ve been following us (MLS) and they’ve been watching us,” Rawlins said. “They were very complimentary and positive about what we were doing and the success we’ve had in the last season … We’ve signed a non-disclosure agreement with them and we’re looking at the business models. We’re looking at what the numbers look like to bring MLS soccer to Central Florida.”
And if anyone has had any questions about Rawlins’ allegiance to USL PRO he makes that clear in the interview as well.
Here are parts one and two of those interviews.
For Part 2 click read more –>
Comments are closed.
I’m really happy to see the club taking baby steps and building connections in the community. Clearly they have an eye on MLS but the team could/would/should survive if Garber and company look somewhere else. I hope that Orlando can get their stadium situation resolved as that is the only hitch in their proposed bid.
They took USL Pro by storm this year, only losing 3 games all year and drawing a league high 5400-ish. They’re clearly doing something right down there in Central Florida.
Rawlins actually thinks that there’s not a big gap between the level of play in MLS and USL Pro. Ha! I find that amazing. I’m a fan of soccer, but I just don’t buy that line at all. OCSC had several very strong players from last year in D2 and a few are getting chances at MLS teams as they should. BUT really – I don’t know what games he’s watching because I see a big gap between the two leagues. If he said the same about USL Pro and NASL, then I’d be more likely to buy that.
Despite this minor flaw in perception, he certainly knows how to run a soccer team from the business side. He did a great job in Austin and now is doing it again in Orlando. I do wish the team good luck in their efforts.
MLS does need to be in the southeast at some point in time IMO.
Just wondering is their a state that has MLS and D2? Can D2 survive if MLS comes to town?
@WSW Texas next season will have both MLS (FC Dallas, Houston) and NASL (San Antonio).
Don Garber was very clear when he spoke at the supporters summit in LA last weekend that the 20th MLS team would be in NYC.
I’m not for it nor am I against it but if any city in Florida should get a team it should be Orlando their fan base is growing and the owner has money. As long as they can get 18-19 thousand in the seat and eventually get 20,000 and fill up the stadium I’m happy. MLS does not need any more empty stadiums. That being said I still think New York is a better choice base on its population it should easily be able to pull big crows even with having to complete with two other team and to two other sports.
I think diversification for MLS is better than having more teams in one major market. Rawlins appears to be a very smart guy and knows how he wants his platform to grow.
Gob bless the Brits, their insane love of football and the money they will throw at it!
Well, we have a story about a USL team and Bart isn’t playing is usual Bart-like role that he does with NASL stories, so I’ll take up the torch. There are a LOT of holes in this situation. Let’s take a look….
@Jim – Gotta start with your observation Jim, you are 100% on. Rawlins’ characterization of the difference in play between MLS and D3 USL Pro was absurd. Now, I’ll give him a small amount of credit regarding his team specifically, even though he did not phrase his answer that way and seems to completely shy away from talking about it. OC was top of this league during the regular season and in the playoffs. Was anyone really surprised by these results? They were a D2 team with a D2 coach, and a lot of holdover D2 players that were certainly making D2 level salaries, all self-relegated to D3. Orlando could have easily been a playoff team in the NASL last season, heck they could have even competed for the title perhaps. They are closer to MLS level play on their team than any other USL Pro team, but it is still a very good sized gap nonetheless.
Stadium. Rawlins makes it pretty clear that any chances of either a refurbished Citrus Bowl, less than ideal, or a brand new SSS would hinge entirely on City/County funding. Has he been living under a rock? I don’t live in Orlando, so I don’t know the specifics of the climate for that sort of thing there, but in general, are their tax-paying citizens in hard economic times that are really in support of hundreds of millions of public dollars to build stadiums for pro sports teams and lining the owners pockets with money anymore? Really?
I’m not going to go into too much knocking of OC for their attendance figures. I’ve seen people talk in various places and say that there were a whole lot of freebies given out, and they were included in those attendance totals. I know that’s pretty commonplace in lower division soccer over the years, but reporting tickets scanned or better yet tickets sold is what MLS should want to know about. No matter what their attendance reporting procedures, I wonder if they’ll be able to keep their numbers up, especially if MLS possibilities start looking less likely.
I recall all the haters on South Florida who casually dismissed the meeting Garber had with the Ultras and other South Florida soccer fans. The critics all liked to say, well he was only in town for the combine and just took a little time to meet with them because he was here. Are these same people now going to chime in with, well Garber is going to be in Orlando for the preseason Disney tournament, so it’s not like he came JUST to talk to OC officials?
Andy is right. Unless some major catastrophe strikes, team #20 IS GOING TO BE NYC2. Period. Garber has been all over this forever. Every time he talks about it, it’s never a matter of if, it’s only when, as in when a stadium situation gets figured out. An MLS team in NYC proper is going to mean HUGE $$$ for everyone, the owners, the businesses, the players, the TV networks, everyone. It’s happening, get over it. Everything is about money in the end, and NYC2 means more money than anywhere else they could put the next team.
Now that doesn’t mean there isn’t still hope for Orlando, South Florida, Minnesota, Atlanta, etc. MLS will go past 20 teams at some point. Next year’s schedule shows us they are more than willing to play an unbalanced schedule. The recent expansion teams show us where MLS is looking most closely to add it’s teams from – well run lower level organizations with good fanbases in viable markets, with a good stadium solution. NYC2 is the exception to this of course, but based purely on $$$$. Look at the Cascadia Cup in the Pacific NW. Look at the buzz those rivalries have created for MLS. THIS is the best possible way into MLS in the next wave of expansion to 24. Orlando needs to build a rivalry. It’s not happening with Antigua, LA Blues, or any other USL Pro team. They need to be playing the Strikers and the Rowdies. Strikers/Rowdies is an all-time great American pro soccer rivalry. Bad blood is already brewing against Orlando and they don’t even play. The ingredients are there for a three way derby in this corner of the US that could be just as compelling. But a lot of work needs to go into it. But that work could really pay off if done right.
“Don Garber was very clear when he spoke at the supporters summit in LA last weekend that the 20th MLS team would be in NYC.”
Which is only contingent on that little itsy bitsy hangup of getting a stadium built in the most expensive city in the country.
Other than that, yeah, it’s a slam dunk.
As for D2 and D1 existing in the same state, given D2 is currently only in North Carolina, Florida, Minnesota, Georgia and (next year) Texas, it’s not surprising there’s virtually no overlap (and Texas is kind of a big state, as you might have heard).
MLS and whatever D2 have only shared states in California (big state, obviously, several times from 1997-2001 and again in 2007), Colorado in 1996-1997, Florida in 1996-1999,
Massachusetts in 1997-2000, Missouri in 2010, Ohio in 1998-2003 and again in 2009 and
Texas in 1997-2003 and again 2009-2010. They also shared the New York metropolitan area from 1996-2001.
I think Orlando (as a city) may be a viable expansion candidate, but I suspect it may be 4+ years before MLS adds franchise #21.
Since Orlando City apparently did not earn a profit last year, despite their impressive attendance levels, it makes me wonder if the ownership will be willing to stick it out long enough.
I imagine they can bring down their costs by reducing player salaries, but if they don’t have the caliber of talent needed to dominate their league anymore, I’m thinking their attendance will likely be impacted.
It will be interesting to see how it all unfolds over the next couple of years.
$$$$$$$ If anyone thinks that after MLS adds its 20th team and another team/city (Orlando, MSP, Atlanta, San Diego, etc…) with a solid organization and deep pocketed owners knocks on the door that MLS will turn them away is crazy. This isn’t Europe so this absolute “law” of a traditional 20 doesn’t apply here. Long term I see 24 teams with 4 divisions of 6 teams (even vice-versa like the NFL). Same reason MLS is different with a play-off system. There are 300+ million people here versus the most populous European country (Germany) that has 80 million. Franchsise fees mean million$$ for the current ownership group and for many could be the difference between being in the red or black in a given year, plus as we’ve learned from USL over the years, franchise fees are like crack cocaine and meth – highly addictive!
@Kenn Technically, Missouri didn’t host MLS and D2 in 2010 because Sporting/Wizards have been playing in Kansas since 2008.
Rawlins can burn in hell. For the way he handled Austin, He should just go back to England,
Since the franchise fee goes up each time after a team is added, it is going to be extremely expensive for anyone to buy in after #20 (which is apparently priced at $100 mil). I think whoever is going to put forward that amount of cash is going to need to have a hell of alot of confidence in the market they are moving into. I imagine it will take a long, long time to recoup that kind of investment.
I’ve heard that Beckham has some kind of option to buy a franchise of his own at a reduced price, so maybe someone will end up partnering with him to buy in.
@JXU – That $100 million is supposedly only for a NY franchise. And it makes sense that the price would be different for an NYC team — you want to be damned sure that whoever buys it has very, very deep pockets to be able to pull off making it work in NYC. Montreal was $40 million, if I remember right. I can easily imagine that anyone by NYC2 would be something lower. Say, $75M. Not that Phil has that money. He alone isn’t worth that much. But he knows people with money, so maybe he can put together the group for it.
Regarding your other comment, OCFC not making money last year… oy. Really? I can only laugh, then. Because Phil was on the path to making money here in Austin. I haven’t watched the clips (maybe I’ll be able to stomach it sometime over the holidays), but from the commentary above, I find it tough, again, to think about what was lost here. If he’s really thinking about getting a stadium built there, brother. Leaves me speechless. And if the team actually still lost money after getting that supposedly sweet stadium deal, drawing nearly 5500, reducing their travel budget by at least half and paying lower salaries because of the shorter season, I have to wonder how many of those tickets were giveaways and what exactly is going on over there.
I will be very interested to see what the attendance numbers look like next season. And, as someone else above says, where they go in a couple more years if this all goes the way of Rochester and MLS becomes more of a fantasy.
Oh, and regarding Texas never getting an MLS team… that comment pisses me off even more, as one of the first things that I heard Phil say here in Austin was “Austin is a 2nd division town, and we have no interest in doing anything more than that.”
So, clearly plans and ideas change. Orlando fans, keep this in mind. If the wind starts blowing a little differently in a couple more years, Phil can change his mind again.
@Bart – Garber might disagree with you. Remember that he is looking at the next tv contract after 2014. Another team in the NYC market gives MLS a much bigger bargaining chip for a better contract than Orlando. Orlando is a small fry compared to NYC.
“Rawlins actually thinks that there’s not a big gap between the level of play in MLS and USL Pro.”
Then why is he all hellbent on getting out of USL and into MLS? lol! Anyone could see there is a HUGE gap now! How many USL-Pro games has he watched? Orlando was a D2 team playing D3 teams! And I am sure that silly comment won’t endure him to MLS. MLS could say if we aren’t that much better than your crappy little league, then why don’t you stay in the USL-Pro with its ever folding teams then? You won’t have to spend millions on quality players and instead get by paying peants for your USL players who beat EPL teams as you like to mention. ha! Talk about delusional.
Orlando is a long way from even Rochester’s average numbers during their heyday. And they at least had a SSS. Good luck getting one built in Orlando. This could all blow up with a lot of egg on Rawlins face if he is not careful. 3,000 hanging out in the Citrus Bowl in the next coming years and your MLS dreams turn to nightmares. Save the hubris.
@ Dave
Garber might be interested in TV revenue, but the issue in my mind is soccer diversification for a larger fan base. After you get past the Giants/Jets/Mets/Yankees and Knicks, there is not a lot more to get excited about, unless you like cabaret.
And Rawlins is definitely posturing, there is a big difference between MLS and USl Pro or even NASL for that matter.
Yowza, Yowza, Yowza
Too many people are presuming Orlando’s only shot at MLS would be as an expansion team (#21 or after).
DC United has to move, and it’s not a given they’ll go to Baltimore if Charm City’s proposed stadium doesn’t move any quicker than DC’s. If OC’s ownership is serious, and if Will Chang sees no real positive endgame in DC, he may just decide to cut his losses and either sell out completely or sell most of his stake and let the team move to Orlando. There’s not a huge difference in market size (Baltimore’s metro area is about 2.7 million, Orlando about 2.1 million but growing more rapidly) and Orlando is actually a larger TV market (1.4 million TV households to 1.1 million).
The Crew could also potentially be in play. Or so I hear.
What would you do? If you wanted to be in MLS and you had the wherewithal, would you wait and see how long it takes MLS to get a second team in a new stadium in New York and THEN how long it takes before they expand again or do you look for an opportunity like buying DCU?
MLS’ frustration at how things have gone with the DC stadium hunt is no secret. And San Jose to Houston is precedent for such a move.
Totally agree, Kenn. If Wilf and the Vikings are truly serious about bringing in an MLS team (I have my doubts) then the only way that would happen is long term with one of those 21 through – (?) expansion clubs -or- a club moving. DC United would be an excellent example of a team that may need to move. I never like to mention the other clubs that could possibly shut down and start up somewhere else because it gets people all riled up but we all know of several clubs that struggle at the gate and don’t seem to put a lot back into the product on the field. One of them seems to have no interest in getting a SSS either.
If they moved DC United one of the cornerstone teams in MLS to Orlando, Orlando will be one of the most hated cities from a MLS fan standpoint.
@Brian, I agree with you – I hate seeing other cities teams mentioned as relocation candidates. I’m not going to fly off the handle because I do think there are times when moving a team is necessary. I don’t know if DC United is there yet. I hope the Crew aren’t there yet either!\
@KT, where are the rumors that Columbus is in play coming from? As a Crew season ticket holder, I really hope that’s just not true. The Crew have always had decent attendance and I can admit it should be much better. They have a stadium – the original MLS SSS but the location is not all that great. IMO, the attendance issues were due to bad moves by the FO in releasing several of the fan favorites and a terrible economy in Ohio. I seriously believe their attendance will rebound next year – especially if they get that DP they have recently mentioned. The problems in Columbus are related to the FO and a serious lack of marketing the team. It’s not a problem with the fans or the market.
WSW, Really? Fans would hate Orlando because MLS made a decision to move the team? That is not Orlando’s fault and I don’t think anyone would see that as Orlando’s fault. That is a tactical business decision that will have taken years for MLS executives to finally decide on after giving it chance after chance after chance.
Personally I would hate to see DC United have to move somewhere else because they were so important to the league for so long and had some great teams in the early years. But how many people hate the Minnesota Twins because they were once the Washington Senators?
Jim, because we have the MLS National Sale Center here I know from talking to some of those folks that they spent a good deal of time revamping the sales department at Columbus last year and continue to work on that this off season as well.
BQ, that’s good to know that Columbus is taking advantage of the MLS National Sales Center. They definitely need help. I do all I can by taking as many friends to games to try to get them to become ticket buyers, even if it’s just a 4 pack or something. I believe if you want to have a local team around you have to support them or else they will move! I guess that’s just the experience of seeing that happen to the Browns.
Is there a part 3 to this interview?
Yes, but it’s not really that relevant to the conversation. It just talks about being active in the community which I already said they do a great job of just as they did in Austin. Click the Vimeo logo and you will see all three videos.