Scorpions’ Gordon Hartman Offers Up STAR Soccer Complex to San Antonio School District
Gordon Hartman, owner of the San Antonio Scorpions pro soccer team, has offered up his STAR Soccer Complex in lieu of demolition of the track at Alamo Stadium.
Earlier this month IMS reported on yet another page of the ongoing story of two organizations attempting to bring pro soccer to San Antonio. Gordon Hartman’s San Antonio Scorpions, set to start play this spring in the NASL, and Spurs Sports and Entertainment (SS&E) who have only postulated they would like to start a team with ULS PRO sometime in the future.
The Spurs have stated they would like to play at the aging but soon to be refurbished Alamo Stadium. The remodeling of Alamo Stadium is coming from a special bond voted on by the tax payers in the San Antonio Independent School District (SAISD).
This past month the SAISD school board had been looking at a proposal to tear the track out of Alamo Stadium; a request that SS&E had made so they could fit a regulation soccer field into Alamo. Some members of the community also wanted to be rid of the track so other soccer matches, including high school games, could be played at the stadium. But the decision came up against so much opposition that the school board tabled the vote until January.
At the time of the SAISD school board meeting in December, Hartman had told the media that he would offer up his STAR Soccer Complex which boast 13 lit full size soccer fields.
STAR, which is owned by Hartman, sits next to Morgan’s Wonderland and is adjacent to land where he plans on building a soccer stadium for his Scorpions that would meet or exceed the standards for a D2 professional soccer team. However, at the present time STAR does not have any sort of seating which is of course already in place at Alamo Stadium.
Now Hartman has made it official sending a letter to the school board offering up his STAR complex. TV station KENS 5 from San Antonio reported this week that Hartman said his offer to the school district makes budgetary sense by keeping one of the state’s best high school tracks in place and serving the students’ interests.
“The last thing I think SAISD should do is spend millions of dollars to make an adjustment to something that the dollars aren’t there to do, and it can be simply resolved by using something that already exists in San Antonio,” said Hartman.
According to KENS, SAISD spokesperson Leslie Price stated that Hartman’s offer has been sent to the school board and will be considered in a “specially called” Board of Trustees meeting on Jan. 5.
While the move by Hartman may be genuine in its attempt to offer up a cheaper and more practical solution to SAISD, it’s also clear the move is strategic to keep SS&E out of the pro soccer picture in San Antonio. The longer Hartman can stall off SS&E and get his own team up and running, the more momentum his Scorpions will have in winning over soccer supporters in the Texas city.
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It’s too good of a deal for SAISD to pass up and a smart way for Hartman to build ties with the school district. I’d say its a win/win situation. Gotta wonder how SS&E will respond now.
“STAR, which is owned by Hartman, sits next to Morgan’s Wonderland and is adjacent to land where he plans on building a soccer stadium for his Scorpions that would meet or exceed the standards for a D2 professional soccer team. However, at the present time STAR does not have any sort of seating which is of course already in place at Alamo Stadium.”
With the season quickly approaching, Where are the Scorpions going to be playing?
Silly, I’m pretty sure you know the answer to that one. But to play along and follow your lead, the Scorpions will play at Hero’s Stadium which is near the STAR Complex and is a high school stadium owned by the North East Independent School District.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heroes_Stadium
Thanks for the link. I didn’t know what their plans were. It will be nice to see them get a real stadium.
I am completely opposed to any and all teams who play professional games in a high school facility. I know that it would cut out a lot of teams, but I think if you can’t afford a proper stadium you should not be allowed to operate a professional team.
If you’ve gotta play in a high school stadium, one in Texas, like Heroes, is pretty damned good as a temp solution. Looking forward to them getting their SSS built. Would be a cool road trip!
What NASL teams are in the running or early planning stages of obtaining a soccer-specific stadium? I know with only a full inaugural season under their belt, it’s not a topic you hear too much about, but you would think now is the time for owners to start thinking about if they’re wanting the league to survive.
OK, here’s a list:
Silverbacks: SSS
RailHawks: SSS
FC Edmonton: This is a mess and they are working on plans to build a SSS or remodel a stadium which would be close to a SSS. Possibly in conjunction with the Womens WC coming to Canada.
Strikers: Pretty much a SSS although football is also played there in the fall.
Stars: SSS
Rowdies: Playing in a baseball stadium. Talk of a SSS someday but unless they take in some investors I don’t see that happening.
Islanders: Their stadium is being rehabbed currently. Its a converted baseball stadium that will be a SSS when they are finished with it.
Scorpions: There are beginning plans for a bare bones SSS but nothing official yet.
So 5 of 8 teams will be playing in “pretty much” a SSS this season.
Oh, that’s right. I forgot that some of the clubs already play in SSS. I guess was thinking stadium structures more on par with MLS standard of SSS. Kinda like Livestrong Sporting Park. Haha, but not thinking about NASL having an average attendance of 3000+.
I suppose I am thinking light-years into the future when lower divisions are equally matched in infrastructure to that of D1. Silly me.
Isn’t it “Gordon” Hartman?
And there are some really nice high school facilities in this country. To dismiss them all out of hand would be silly.
Now, the place the Pittsburgh Riverhounds play, yeah. But the place the Richmond Kickers play is no great shakes, either.
As to the general point, yes, it’s obvious what Hartman’s idea here is. He can’t turn STAR into what he envisions without help and regardless of who might eventually win a battle with SS&E, you don’t want to wage that if you don’t have to.
If you don’t bump any high school teams, then the extra revenue to an already existing facility is a good thing. No? Sports facilities are pricey buggers that are used too seldomly the majority of the time. I am a good little, Canadian so I would use a hockey example. The Pheonix Coyotes lose more then thirty million annually, but it is saving them just over ten million by having a team in the stadium. Do you follow? If the team left then the city of Glenndale would have to pay the full debt of the arena. But even with the team bleeding money, they still bring in enough to greatly help with the stadium burden. Basicly the only reason, they still have a team.
Using a high school facility is a bad thing? I think it is simple economics.
Foote Field in Edmonton us a fantastic facility… for Canadian football. The turf is meant for field hockey and Canadian football, with permanent lines. If it had a newer FIFA recommended turf with non permanent lines, then the Fath Group could donate a couple million to the University of Alberta to build nice seating, and then write off the donation for taxes. Who would care if it wasn’t soccer specific as long as it looked like one during game days?
Edmonton needs a new stadium for a few reasons, but the biggest reason is the scenerio I mentioned above, will simply not be happening.
The second biggest obstacle is the multi billionaire, Katz, wants a new, downtown arena for the Oilers. Paid for by tax payers, but profits are private. Nothing big, just four hundred and fifty million. That is keeping a new soccer specific stadium from happening until it is resolved.
Proper stadiums will give teams and the sport more credibility. Owned stadiums give teams the ability to market their own home field and sell permanent advertising around the stadium. The teams also lose the revenue and ability to sell alcohol when playing in high school facilities, which can be a deal breaker for some fans.
Nestor said “he would like to get creative” with ALF just like Portland did with their baseball stadium.
There’s a couple of issues:
1. The Hartman stadium doesn’t actually exist so he may as well be offering SAISD free unicorns
2. The STAR complex is outside SAISD boundaries, one of the objections to taking out the track has been that an alternate track site is outside of SAISD boundaries, showing the double standards.
At the most recent SAISD board meeting not a single student spoke in favor of keeping the track but three spoke in favor of a soccer field at Alamo.
Hartman is naive if he thinks that it’ll stop SS&E coming in, and he’s going to look especially bad if he doesn’t end up building Scorpions Stadium.
Nice marketing gesture by Hartman. He gets to lay off the ongoing maintenance expenses to SAISD, which further reduces his monthly nut.
I would be shocked if SAISD goes for this promotional stunt.
@Chris – 1. You may need to re-read BQ’s article as well as the one he linked. Hartman is not offering has yet to be built stadium for school use, he’s offering the already existing STAR soccer complex fields. 2. Not familiar with the geography of San Antonio or the school district, but I don’t get this argument. Do you have any idea how many high schools there are in this country that don’t have their own facilities for all sports the field a team in? It’s got to be a lot if the high schools in my county are any kind of reasonable sample. Your whole post comes off as nothing more than a pro-USL fan bashing Hartman.
@Bart – Speaking of NASL bashing, USL backers LOL…. If there are any specifics about the details of the offer Hartman sent the school board in this article or the linked one, I’m having a hard time finding them. The only thing I did read was the part where it says Hartman offered up his fields for use by the high school district for FREE. FREE. Let’s say that one more time – FREE. So, considering this, how do you come up with him “laying off the ongoing maintenance expense to SAISD?”
This is a win/win. Sure Hartman gets something out of it by helping to insure the Spurs have no place to put a D3 team in the market he’s already planted his team that is beginning play in a few months. This is no different strategically than the Rowdies getting the trademark back. What you’re so quickly dismissing is that it is a necessary response to another possible USL Pro team being placed in a market where an NASL team already exists, effectively ruining all chances of pro soccer surviving by attempting to divide the fanbase. How many times do we have to say this – no market is going to support two minor league pro soccer clubs. It’s not going to happen. There is not enough fan dollars to go around for two teams to survive long term. So Hartman helps protect his investment with another in a long line of philanthropic gestures to his community. Anyone who tries to say this guy is acting only in self-interests and has no thought for the betterment of his community better hold their words until they look up his history of charity work. And God knows, especially in these economic times, the school board certainly has PLENTY of meaningful and worthwhile projects to spend that $35 million on instead of tearing up that track.
And besides, if Spurs wants SOOOO desperately to have a pro soccer team, they need look no further than Austin where there is a fanbase hungry for pro soccer who had their team stolen away in the night. Doesn’t SS&E already have a minor league team in another sport in or near Austin? Partner up with the Aztex new PDL club and you’ve got the makings for a bright future for pro soccer in Austin, plus you’ve got a built in rival close at hand in the Scorpions, for friendlies if nothing else! If people would just use some common sense instead of always trying to one up one another, lower division pro soccer in North America might actually have a chance!
What do you mean beer can’t be sold at a stadium used for high school sports? Is this law in the U.S.? That makes very little sense. If I was a dad who had to suffer through my daughter’s wild and volleyball years, because she’s like, totally going to get a scholarship then I would need a beer or two for every game I had to suffer through. So the solution to the playing in a high school facility; make them play at one in Canada.
Yes Daniel it is the law here. Alcohol is not served in or permitted in high school stadiums. In fact most colleges who have on campus stadiums can not serve alcohol either.
Striker: Chris said it is outside of the district and misread the part about the stadium being offered. School districts have strict boundaries and most will not cross them for even a free field or fields.
SS&E do not care if the SA Scorpions get popular and fully operational.
Remember San Antonio Iguanas. The Iguanas was a very popular minor league hockey team, but SS&E introduced the San Antonio Rampage for the minor league hockey market. As a result, the Iguanas folded. SS&E have a lot of San Antonio political experience over Hartman. SS&E will get their SSS.
taly, hope your ready for the kick back on your comment. Even though it does seem to be the American way, I’m not sure it’s something to be totally proud of that SS&E ran over the smaller team buy pushing their money about in order to get what they wanted. BTW, no I don’t remember the Iguanas nor do I know anything about the Rampage except that SS&E owns them.
Secondly, a converted Alamo will certainly not be a SSS. It’s owned by SAISD, which clearly you understand, and will be a multipurpose facility. So no, SS&E will not get their SSS.
Honestly, considering all of the obstacles in place, I don’t see why SS&E would even consider to pursue this at this point. As I said above, Austin, or any of a number of other markets would HAVE to be easier to start up a D3 team if they are really that desirous of doing so. Minor league soccer isn’t even a money maker, why fight so hard through everything in their path in San Antonio at this point? If they’re that interested in burning money, I’ll provide them with my address, and they can just mail me some checks instead!
SS&E are established in San Antonio. it is clear at this point that they have not made a move, because the stars need to be properly aligned for them to go forward and start a soccer business model. Unlike other folks in D2, this will not be a “let’s see what sticks to the wall” business plan when it is all over.
These folks are professional and experienced in the sports entertainment industry. Ultimately, they will want a soccer specific stadium that can be leveraged through city/county assistance, as this group will want to control their own destiny.
I cannot believe that SS&E has no misunderstanding on what it takes to start and run a minor league soccer team. They know that an initial part of their investment will bleed for a bit, if they move forward.
I don’t understand why I haven’t heard much from everybody on this site about why there haven’t been any new franchises to commit to D2. Is everybody ignoring the obvious?
@ Strikers Return – you should probably look up the name Chris Hockman before calling him a pro-USL fanboy. That, and going off of your comments it seems you aren’t from here (as in, the US). The vast majority of schools in the state of Texas DO have fields for every sports team they field whether it is large city ISDs sharing amongst several schools (Houston/Dallas/SA for example) or each school having their own.
@ AmericanizeSoccer – actually, a few of us (from one of the supporter’s groups here in SA) had a pretty lengthy discussion today about the very thing you’re alluding too. That issue is something that is on the mind of most people here, and it’s part of the bigger picture/problem.
@HailtotheKing – You need to stop taking yourself so seriously for a moment my friend. We’re all soccer fans here. We’re commenting on information that BQ and his team do a great job providing us. Part of that entails giving our opinions. You should re-read my post. I didn’t call Chris a “fanboy.” What I said was, his post reads as someone who is pro USL simply taking shots at Hartman. Or are comments about “free unicorns” supposed to be taken serious rather than snarky banter?
As for where I live or are from, you’re way off base. I started my comments about high school athletic facilities with a disclaimer about my lack of knowledge of the subject in the state of Texas, never having lived there, and again, I think you’re drawing assumptions rather than having actually fully read my post. In South Florida for example, where football is king of high school sports by a longshot, many schools do not have their own field. As you may know if you’ve watched any of the streams of Strikers games from Lockhart, you’ll note that it serves as the field for many high school football games in Broward County.
Let’s move on now to your comments to AmericanizeSoccer. Can you elaborate on what you and your fellow supporters feel is the “big picture/problem” with D2?
@AmericanizeSoccer – To answer your question, I think it is discussed fairly regular by D2 fans. And I’d also say you’re incorrect in your statement of no new franchises having committed to D2. Since the birth of the NASL, both San Antonio and Ottawa have come to the league. Would we all like to see more teams in the league soon? Of course. Do we want to let just anyone in willing to write the expansion fee check, a la USL? Of course not. Look, the NASL had a fairly successful inaugural season. The look like they’re in good shape to build on that this year. Given the uncertainty of lower division soccer in North America over the last, let’s just say even the last 10 years, if you were thinking of investing in a team, wouldn’t you want to see the league show some stability before plunking down your cash? If the league and the teams can put together another successful year, I’m all but certain we’ll see some additional new expansion announced prior to the 2013 campaign.
@AmericanizeSoccer, You may want to give this interview with Aaron Davidson a listen. http://www.blogtalkradio.com/ultrasalive/2011/11/29/miami-ultras-alive-34
Compared to other leagues the NASL is usually pretty accessible if you want to interview someone from the league to talk about such issues. We’ve interviewed commissioner Downs a number of times where he has talked about expansion.
The following post contains specific text that could potentially be interpreted by some as ‘snarky banter’. Viewer discretion is advised.
While Strikers Return continues to make friends here, I’ll toss in my two cents worth. I managed to find out who Chris Hockman was just by clicking on his name (this internet stuff sure is weird!). For the record, Chris was referring to a previous article where Hartman DID offer the school district the use of his not yet existent new stadium. A direct quote from said article: “Hartman sent a letter to the board suggesting they meet and talk about using his future stadium if SAISD really wants a professional size field”.
Of course, SAISD wants a pro size field at Alamo mainly for the purpose of renting out the facility. That revenue source goes away without the field renovations.
I found this curious as well: “Hartman even pledged to use his foundation’s funds to refurbish the school district’s own soccer fields — again, at no cost”. So he has a facility currently operating at a deficit, yet he’s willing to allocate foundation funds to upgrade the SAISD soccer fields so that he can ensure that his pro soccer team (which will exist for the purpose of attempting to generate profits to cover the deficit at the aforementioned facility), has no competition? Sounds like a high stakes poker game to me, and it makes you wonder just how much of his own money he’s gambling with.
Since there seems to be much banter about Chris Hockman I can tell you I’ve known Chris for over a year now and he is quoted numerous times in the investigative report on did on this very subject last year at this time.
http://www.insidemnsoccer.com/2011/01/03/san-antonio-one-team-two-teams-or-no-teams-nasl-or-usl/
Chris is an Aussy who lives in SA and reports on soccer for the Examiner online for the SA area. While he is quite outspoken he does know the situation down there.
He is also on Twitter and we converse via Twitter frequently. @chrisomni
I am not at all a USL supporter – I prefer NASL’s model but I do question it’s short term viability. All I’m saying is that the SAISD will not go outside their boundaries, and certainly not for some local park soccer fields!
As mentioned Hartman’s old offer was of his stadium, that’s not what Brian was talking about here and I apologize for the confusion. Without the stadium this becomes an even bigger issue, and I wonder if it’s a concession from Hartman that his stadium won’t be happening any time soon.
Texas is a little different every School District has at least one facility for their teams, and therefore they don’t leave the district until the playoffs, so leaving the district (across San Antonio no less!) is a big deal, you’d be talking about bussing kids 50 miles every week!
As for why SSE don’t want to go outside of SA – SS&E are looking for an MLS team, therefore they want it to be in San Antonio, I know that they are interested in developments up in Austin but their team will be in SA because of looking towards MLS.
More will come on this, with an SAISD board meeting on the 5th, the current Chairman is Ed Garza who was mayor at the time when San Antonio nearly had an MLS club.
And yes that unicorns line was a little snarky.
@Brian – Far more important than expansion talk is finding owners for Atlanta, Minnesota, and Carolina. And so far Downs or Davidson have nothing to announce there.
Anyone can throw out names of markets. But until investors actually are willing to put down money, it is just names on a map. And so far the NASL hasn’t attracted enough of them. That is the problem. The business of minor league soccer is not an attractive one.
I don’t totally disagree, Dave. And…you forgot Fort Lauderdale although they have been chasing a suitor on that one. I’ve said the same thing on this site before. It’s easy to state that others have interest but until they actually plunk the money down it doesn’t mean much.
I’ve written two articles about the NASL in which I conclude on both sides of the fence.
I ask that Brian allow me to attach for those who are interested to read. Also, I live in San Antonio and consider myself a subject matter expert on the situation here. I have met personally with Aaron Davidson and Gordon Hartman. I am the source on the article about the NBA Spurs. I will attach this article too. Let me know if you have any questions or things you want to learn and I will effort them.
http://www.americanizesoccer.com/2011/12/orlando-city-causing-shakeup-in-soccers.html
http://www.americanizesoccer.com/2011/08/is-750000-nasl-start-up-franchise-fee.html
http://www.americanizesoccer.com/2011/08/nba-spurs-blew-pro-soccer-opportunity.html