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	<title>Comments on: Poor Officiating Plus Minnesota Mistake Leads to Another San Antonio Win</title>
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	<link>http://www.insidemnsoccer.com/2012/08/12/poor-officiating-plus-minnesota-mistake-leads-to-another-san-antonio-win/?utm_source=rss&#038;utm_medium=rss&#038;utm_campaign=poor-officiating-plus-minnesota-mistake-leads-to-another-san-antonio-win</link>
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		<title>By: Brian Quarstad</title>
		<link>http://www.insidemnsoccer.com/2012/08/12/poor-officiating-plus-minnesota-mistake-leads-to-another-san-antonio-win/#comment-30269</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian Quarstad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Aug 2012 18:32:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.insidemnsoccer.com/?p=35604#comment-30269</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[John, Pro is assigning refs and if you read the link I left above in another of my comments you will see that NASL pays their referee&#039;s to travel and are using up and coming MLS referees whenever possible. I think PRO will eventually get more involved with NASL as well.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>John, Pro is assigning refs and if you read the link I left above in another of my comments you will see that NASL pays their referee&#8217;s to travel and are using up and coming MLS referees whenever possible. I think PRO will eventually get more involved with NASL as well.</p>
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		<title>By: John</title>
		<link>http://www.insidemnsoccer.com/2012/08/12/poor-officiating-plus-minnesota-mistake-leads-to-another-san-antonio-win/#comment-30268</link>
		<dc:creator>John</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Aug 2012 18:25:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.insidemnsoccer.com/?p=35604#comment-30268</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[i agree with old ref but NASL should partner with MLS on PRO 
it will benefit both organizations]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>i agree with old ref but NASL should partner with MLS on PRO<br />
it will benefit both organizations</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Old Ref</title>
		<link>http://www.insidemnsoccer.com/2012/08/12/poor-officiating-plus-minnesota-mistake-leads-to-another-san-antonio-win/#comment-30259</link>
		<dc:creator>Old Ref</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Aug 2012 14:09:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.insidemnsoccer.com/?p=35604#comment-30259</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Wow, guys try not to read so much into it. All I am saying is that if you want to improve the game you love, (and yes, I agree the vast majority of the referees do love it or they would not be involved anymore), you have to take some responsibility and unfortunately money is needed.  

You cannot expect successful, intelligent, fit, younger men (or women) to choose to put the effort into something that will not pay them back in the long run.  They will put their efforts into &quot;normal&quot; careers, that include things like medical benefits and reliable income.  Again, I am not advocating paying for health care-just an obvious common sense point.  Young referees have to make a choice, and most leave because they cannot afford to pursue a part-time career that takes a lot of time and effort to improve.

If all you want to do is critique an AR and referee crew that you feel made a mistake, you are not doing anything positive for the game.

By the way I am in no way a union supporter.

PRO- good start, but you cannot expect instant results.

My main point, let&#039;s get together as fans, coaches, players and improve the referees, knowing that all of us need to contribute rather than just complain.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow, guys try not to read so much into it. All I am saying is that if you want to improve the game you love, (and yes, I agree the vast majority of the referees do love it or they would not be involved anymore), you have to take some responsibility and unfortunately money is needed.  </p>
<p>You cannot expect successful, intelligent, fit, younger men (or women) to choose to put the effort into something that will not pay them back in the long run.  They will put their efforts into &#8220;normal&#8221; careers, that include things like medical benefits and reliable income.  Again, I am not advocating paying for health care-just an obvious common sense point.  Young referees have to make a choice, and most leave because they cannot afford to pursue a part-time career that takes a lot of time and effort to improve.</p>
<p>If all you want to do is critique an AR and referee crew that you feel made a mistake, you are not doing anything positive for the game.</p>
<p>By the way I am in no way a union supporter.</p>
<p>PRO- good start, but you cannot expect instant results.</p>
<p>My main point, let&#8217;s get together as fans, coaches, players and improve the referees, knowing that all of us need to contribute rather than just complain.</p>
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		<title>By: Strikers Return</title>
		<link>http://www.insidemnsoccer.com/2012/08/12/poor-officiating-plus-minnesota-mistake-leads-to-another-san-antonio-win/#comment-30224</link>
		<dc:creator>Strikers Return</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Aug 2012 12:59:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.insidemnsoccer.com/?p=35604#comment-30224</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Dear Lord help me I&#039;m agreeing with Bart....  Old Ref, your entire post sounds like a ref&#039;s union promotional statement. With a bit of whiny sarcasm thrown in (I&#039;m going to guess you&#039;ve been learning from Bart&#039;s posts on that front! LOL). We all know reffing isn&#039;t an easy job. People do make mistakes. But those of us who have been watching soccer at every level for many years can easily ascertain that what we have seen on a pretty consistent basis has been below what we would expect. That becomes frustrating game in and game out.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear Lord help me I&#8217;m agreeing with Bart&#8230;.  Old Ref, your entire post sounds like a ref&#8217;s union promotional statement. With a bit of whiny sarcasm thrown in (I&#8217;m going to guess you&#8217;ve been learning from Bart&#8217;s posts on that front! LOL). We all know reffing isn&#8217;t an easy job. People do make mistakes. But those of us who have been watching soccer at every level for many years can easily ascertain that what we have seen on a pretty consistent basis has been below what we would expect. That becomes frustrating game in and game out.</p>
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		<title>By: Bart</title>
		<link>http://www.insidemnsoccer.com/2012/08/12/poor-officiating-plus-minnesota-mistake-leads-to-another-san-antonio-win/#comment-30209</link>
		<dc:creator>Bart</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Aug 2012 01:04:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.insidemnsoccer.com/?p=35604#comment-30209</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@Old ref

I have to pipe in as well. If money is the incentive needed to improve the level of referees on the pitch, then we have lost sight on why most of these referees come to the game anyway.

It is not for the game money, but for the love of the game. As you move up in the levels of the referee game, you need to be more sharp, more in tune and ready to do what is needed to call the game correctly.

Sure, mistakes happen, but blaming this on lousy pay and poor training is a union flub.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Old ref</p>
<p>I have to pipe in as well. If money is the incentive needed to improve the level of referees on the pitch, then we have lost sight on why most of these referees come to the game anyway.</p>
<p>It is not for the game money, but for the love of the game. As you move up in the levels of the referee game, you need to be more sharp, more in tune and ready to do what is needed to call the game correctly.</p>
<p>Sure, mistakes happen, but blaming this on lousy pay and poor training is a union flub.</p>
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		<title>By: Brian Quarstad</title>
		<link>http://www.insidemnsoccer.com/2012/08/12/poor-officiating-plus-minnesota-mistake-leads-to-another-san-antonio-win/#comment-30199</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian Quarstad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Aug 2012 18:41:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.insidemnsoccer.com/?p=35604#comment-30199</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Old Ref, I have to pipe in for this one. First of all, isn&#039;t this what PRO is all about? 

http://www.insidemnsoccer.com/2012/03/02/u-s-soccer-and-mls-to-announce-newly-organized-professional-referee-organization-pro/

Improving the quality of refereeing because it was obvious that it wasn&#039;t keeping up the level of improvement from the players. I have heard this first hand from coaches in the Development Academy all the way up to coaches and players in Major League Soccer. 

The assessor for this group talked to the refereeing team the very next morning. There were several bad calls in this match and the above offside was not the only blown call. On top of that, from what I have learned from the referees at the very top, assessors and instructors, is they are encouraged to keep their flag down if it is close. Calling offside on every close infringement kills the game and sends paying fans home disappointed. 

I don&#039;t think anyone is saying it&#039;s an easy job, but again, these are pros are getting paid to score goals and get into the playoffs and more importantly, draw fans to try to make a profit. I am wondering where this extra money comes from in the teams budgets to pay these refs that you talk about, when most D2 teams are losing between $.75 and $1.5 million a year?

That&#039;s why USSF is stepping in and even more so why MLS stepped in to create PRO and improve the overall quality of refereeing in this country.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Old Ref, I have to pipe in for this one. First of all, isn&#8217;t this what PRO is all about? </p>
<p><a href="http://www.insidemnsoccer.com/2012/03/02/u-s-soccer-and-mls-to-announce-newly-organized-professional-referee-organization-pro/" rel="nofollow">http://www.insidemnsoccer.com/2012/03/02/u-s-soccer-and-mls-to-announce-newly-organized-professional-referee-organization-pro/</a></p>
<p>Improving the quality of refereeing because it was obvious that it wasn&#8217;t keeping up the level of improvement from the players. I have heard this first hand from coaches in the Development Academy all the way up to coaches and players in Major League Soccer. </p>
<p>The assessor for this group talked to the refereeing team the very next morning. There were several bad calls in this match and the above offside was not the only blown call. On top of that, from what I have learned from the referees at the very top, assessors and instructors, is they are encouraged to keep their flag down if it is close. Calling offside on every close infringement kills the game and sends paying fans home disappointed. </p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think anyone is saying it&#8217;s an easy job, but again, these are pros are getting paid to score goals and get into the playoffs and more importantly, draw fans to try to make a profit. I am wondering where this extra money comes from in the teams budgets to pay these refs that you talk about, when most D2 teams are losing between $.75 and $1.5 million a year?</p>
<p>That&#8217;s why USSF is stepping in and even more so why MLS stepped in to create PRO and improve the overall quality of refereeing in this country.</p>
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		<title>By: Old Ref</title>
		<link>http://www.insidemnsoccer.com/2012/08/12/poor-officiating-plus-minnesota-mistake-leads-to-another-san-antonio-win/#comment-30198</link>
		<dc:creator>Old Ref</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Aug 2012 18:23:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.insidemnsoccer.com/?p=35604#comment-30198</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hey guys, I appreciate all the comments and passion for the home team, but some of the remarks about the quality of referees are out of line.

If you are not a current referee at a grade 7 or lower, I am extremely confident that you have not read or discussed what USSF&#039;s positions are on some of the most controversial issues.  Just look at the discrepancies in the above comments and in the remarks about the US Canada game.

A big part of why spectators, coaches and players are so frustrated with referees is the lack of education for non-referees, on what is and is not expected from referees and AR&#039;s. 

You are also making judgement calls using hindsight, video, and stopped photography, none of these are available to either referee or assistant referees.  They are all human and speed of play doesn&#039;t allow perfection.

If you want better refereeing, you need to be willing to add resources and lots of money to the issue of training, mentoring, and assessment.  Currently the referee has to pay for assessments and feedback. Upgrading to even a grade 6 can wipe out 4-5 games worth of pay, (the gear alone wipes out 4-5 games, recertifying each year wipes out a game, etc) and involves a lot of time in the off season to attend training and meetings when the referee could be spending time with family or their real career.

 If you want professional referees, you need to pay them and treat them as professionals. I guarantee many will step up to the plate if it becomes financially worth the time and effort.  You cannot expect referees to improve if no parent, club, or professional team is willing to put their money where their mouths are and bankroll mentoring and constant feedback, while at the same time paying a referee enough to make it worth all the time they put into fitness, education, travel, and gear along with listening to upset, rude spectators, parents, coaches and players who expect perfection in the referee crew but make constant mistakes themselves on the field, on the bench/at training, or in what they are even cheering about (think about all the mistakes the opponent makes and how loud the cheering gets . . .).

Being upset about a call is fine, but blanket statements about poor refereeing fixes nothing.  Take responsibility for improving the game you love.  If you truly think refereeing isn&#039;t at the level it needs to be, tell your favorite team(s) to add money in their budget for referee improvement (like the EP club has done) and secondly, sign up, take the courses, spend the time to get fit, buy the gear, and push out those that are worse than you are (or are tired and not 100% due to the lack of referees).]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey guys, I appreciate all the comments and passion for the home team, but some of the remarks about the quality of referees are out of line.</p>
<p>If you are not a current referee at a grade 7 or lower, I am extremely confident that you have not read or discussed what USSF&#8217;s positions are on some of the most controversial issues.  Just look at the discrepancies in the above comments and in the remarks about the US Canada game.</p>
<p>A big part of why spectators, coaches and players are so frustrated with referees is the lack of education for non-referees, on what is and is not expected from referees and AR&#8217;s. </p>
<p>You are also making judgement calls using hindsight, video, and stopped photography, none of these are available to either referee or assistant referees.  They are all human and speed of play doesn&#8217;t allow perfection.</p>
<p>If you want better refereeing, you need to be willing to add resources and lots of money to the issue of training, mentoring, and assessment.  Currently the referee has to pay for assessments and feedback. Upgrading to even a grade 6 can wipe out 4-5 games worth of pay, (the gear alone wipes out 4-5 games, recertifying each year wipes out a game, etc) and involves a lot of time in the off season to attend training and meetings when the referee could be spending time with family or their real career.</p>
<p> If you want professional referees, you need to pay them and treat them as professionals. I guarantee many will step up to the plate if it becomes financially worth the time and effort.  You cannot expect referees to improve if no parent, club, or professional team is willing to put their money where their mouths are and bankroll mentoring and constant feedback, while at the same time paying a referee enough to make it worth all the time they put into fitness, education, travel, and gear along with listening to upset, rude spectators, parents, coaches and players who expect perfection in the referee crew but make constant mistakes themselves on the field, on the bench/at training, or in what they are even cheering about (think about all the mistakes the opponent makes and how loud the cheering gets . . .).</p>
<p>Being upset about a call is fine, but blanket statements about poor refereeing fixes nothing.  Take responsibility for improving the game you love.  If you truly think refereeing isn&#8217;t at the level it needs to be, tell your favorite team(s) to add money in their budget for referee improvement (like the EP club has done) and secondly, sign up, take the courses, spend the time to get fit, buy the gear, and push out those that are worse than you are (or are tired and not 100% due to the lack of referees).</p>
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		<title>By: John</title>
		<link>http://www.insidemnsoccer.com/2012/08/12/poor-officiating-plus-minnesota-mistake-leads-to-another-san-antonio-win/#comment-30165</link>
		<dc:creator>John</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Aug 2012 19:41:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.insidemnsoccer.com/?p=35604#comment-30165</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[NASL needs one more team

I say bring in the rust belt derby teams or get calgary united to field a NASL team

Or Downs want St Louis get the St Louis Scott Gallgher team to go pro 

I heard their academy is one the best and they just but themselves a soccer field from jeff cooper]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>NASL needs one more team</p>
<p>I say bring in the rust belt derby teams or get calgary united to field a NASL team</p>
<p>Or Downs want St Louis get the St Louis Scott Gallgher team to go pro </p>
<p>I heard their academy is one the best and they just but themselves a soccer field from jeff cooper</p>
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		<title>By: Brian Quarstad</title>
		<link>http://www.insidemnsoccer.com/2012/08/12/poor-officiating-plus-minnesota-mistake-leads-to-another-san-antonio-win/#comment-30140</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian Quarstad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Aug 2012 01:49:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.insidemnsoccer.com/?p=35604#comment-30140</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;ve heard through the grapevine that basically this was just a screw up on the referee and AR&#039;s part. What the AR was thinking other than seeing second to the last defender and not tracking ball, I&#039;m not sure. But several sources have told me that they have both been talked to and told they were in error on the play. 

People make mistakes, it happens. I do have a problem with it when it can effect attendance, scoring bonuses in some cases and who knows, could even mean a team doesn&#039;t make the playoffs. As has been pointed out, these are pro players and pro coaches and organizations that trying desperately to make a profit in soccer, which isn&#039;t an easy task in this country. The level of officiating has to get better.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve heard through the grapevine that basically this was just a screw up on the referee and AR&#8217;s part. What the AR was thinking other than seeing second to the last defender and not tracking ball, I&#8217;m not sure. But several sources have told me that they have both been talked to and told they were in error on the play. </p>
<p>People make mistakes, it happens. I do have a problem with it when it can effect attendance, scoring bonuses in some cases and who knows, could even mean a team doesn&#8217;t make the playoffs. As has been pointed out, these are pro players and pro coaches and organizations that trying desperately to make a profit in soccer, which isn&#8217;t an easy task in this country. The level of officiating has to get better.</p>
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		<title>By: bullsear</title>
		<link>http://www.insidemnsoccer.com/2012/08/12/poor-officiating-plus-minnesota-mistake-leads-to-another-san-antonio-win/#comment-30134</link>
		<dc:creator>bullsear</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Aug 2012 23:03:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.insidemnsoccer.com/?p=35604#comment-30134</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@Spence
It&#039;s possible that Davis was behind the keeper at the time he put the ball in the net, and that&#039;s likely what made him decide to raise his flag (about 30 seconds later).  But the reality is that on that particular play, the position of the goalkeeper became irrelevant once Nunez passed him on the way toward the endline.  It doesn&#039;t matter where the keeper is, so long as Davis was behind the ball itself--which he clearly was.  

In the heat of the moment, it can be a pretty confusing call to make.  But it&#039;s the center referee&#039;s job to realize that no matter where Davis was, the ball must have been ahead of him.  Even if his AR makes the incorrect call, the center should automatically override him and then explain his decision after the match.  

It&#039;s really Fitzgerald who proved that he lacks the ability to assess all of the factors at play on the field and make the correct decision.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Spence<br />
It&#8217;s possible that Davis was behind the keeper at the time he put the ball in the net, and that&#8217;s likely what made him decide to raise his flag (about 30 seconds later).  But the reality is that on that particular play, the position of the goalkeeper became irrelevant once Nunez passed him on the way toward the endline.  It doesn&#8217;t matter where the keeper is, so long as Davis was behind the ball itself&#8211;which he clearly was.  </p>
<p>In the heat of the moment, it can be a pretty confusing call to make.  But it&#8217;s the center referee&#8217;s job to realize that no matter where Davis was, the ball must have been ahead of him.  Even if his AR makes the incorrect call, the center should automatically override him and then explain his decision after the match.  </p>
<p>It&#8217;s really Fitzgerald who proved that he lacks the ability to assess all of the factors at play on the field and make the correct decision.</p>
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