San Antonio to NASL Division-2 For 2012
The NASL announced this afternoon that they have signed San Antonio as an expansion team for 2012 should they secure the sanctioning for Division 2 with the USSF in 2011.
The NASL has been working on the San Antonio market this year and it’s believed the agreement had been solidified in the last several weeks. However, the announcement seems strategically aimed at the Austin Aztex, who have still not committed to either the NASL or the USL for 2011. Previous statements from CEO Djorn Buchholz said they had no intention of playing anything other than D2 soccer in 2011. But Phil Rawlins, owner of the Aztex, has yet to reveal if he will stay with the United Soccer Leagues and join the new USL Pro, which is D3 and a step down in quality levels according to FIFA regulations, or if they will switch allegiance and join the NASL to stay at the D2 level.
San Antonio is only 90 miles from Austin, would be a natural rivalry and make for easy and cheap travel. At the current time, Austin’s closest rival is St. Louis which is over 900 miles.
“We’re delighted to have secured the rights for an NASL team in San Antonio,” said native San Antonian Gordon Hartman who is lead man for the organization. “We will be working aggressively to finalize the details so we can share all the specifics as soon as possible.”
Hartman said he and his ownership group have pursued a San Antonio pro soccer team for two main reasons. “First, we strongly believe there’s a growing interest in and demand for soccer in our community,” he said. “Second, we believe the synergy between the professional soccer team and STAR Soccer will be very beneficial to the long-term success of Morgan’s Wonderland.”
“As we continue to expand the NASL and collectively grow professional soccer in the United States, San Antonio is a natural market with a vibrant business community and soccer fan base,” said Aaron Davidson, CEO of the NASL. “With community leader and successful businessman Gordon Hartman leading the charge, we have added a tremendous owner and partner to our league and are sure the team will follow San Antonio’s winning tradition. And like FC Edmonton, which became a member of the NASL in November 2009 and begins play in April 2011, we are confirming San Antonio and other expansion teams with at least one season’s lead time so that we give the NASL and our teams the necessary time to prepare and launch successfully.”
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Well.
Well, well, well.
Have to see what the ownership group looks like. Probably enough time to get a stadium done.
Good news. Hope they get everything finalized and the league sanctioned sooner rather than later.
All the good things that could come out of a local rivalry should be enough incentive for Austin to at least be mindful of NASL’s bid even if both parties have some disagreements.
Morgan’s Wonderland? shall we call them Morgan’s Wonderland FC???
I wonder if they’re going to resurrect the San Antonio Thunder name from the old NASL?
Any word on branding?
This is pure poppycock, smoke and mirrors. Davidson knows that Hartman cannot have a D2 stadium built in time to make that date. This is nothing more than NASL feeding BS to the public at large and using this as perceived pressure on USSF to grant the waivers for a 2011 sanctioning.
Is Hartman the sugar daddy or is it someone else? Any word on the makeup of the ownership group for San Antonio?
It’s nice to see that someone somewhere has finally gotten the hint that rushing a team into expansion and playing just six months later is not a good idea.
According to the San Antonio Express writeup, Jorge Campos is a part-owner in a company that will be a part-owner of the franchise.
http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/local_news/North_American_Soccer_League_coming_to_SA_104308314.html
Actually, I misspoke a little. Jorge Campos’ company isn’t a part-owner, but did cooperate with Hartman.
Have to agree with Bart that this about trying to distract from the fact the NASL doesn’t have enough teams to get sanctioned as a division two league for 2011. The complex is currently just a bunch of youth soccer fields. There is no stadium and it appears based on the Hartman quotes that they are going to attempt to begin to raise money in order to finance construction. Seems more hopeful fantasy than imminent reality.
If you read the article Jason provided, you will note that the Spurs are working on City financing. There can be only one in San Antonio, and I would bet that the Spurs are the chosen ones.
This was nothing but smoke and mirrors in an attempt to keep the NASL name out there, and it was a weak one at that.
Where is Kartik in all of this?
Having read many comments over the past year regarding this subject, I often come away not sure if many people are actually for the overall growth of the game here in the US.
Whether it is poppyock or not, it is refreshing to see a team have an opportunity to get things right over time and not be rushed into moving up divisions quickly or fielding a team in 10 weeks time as USL has done for years and years. I’m not sold on NASL yet, but this is another move that makes me believe they do at least serve a function as a halfway house between the destruction USL created on the lower divisions in the pyramid and eventually an integrated system probably run as it should be by MLS and the USSF. NASL may simply be the mechanism for getting USL away from D2 and hopefully eventually D3. Than the NASL itself can be dissolved in time and let MLS run the thing the right way, for stability and ensuring the future.
Jeff, getting things right? Let’s take a little reality check here. I am sure both USL and NASL can announce teams that are interested (yes, the word is interested) in fielding a team for the years 2014 and beyond, but the odds are that the announcements mean nothing.
While you certainly have the right to an opinion on how soccer in the US should be run, let’s remember that just because MLS is D1 in this country, it does not mean that it’s model is an effective global one.
You further miss the point that as with MLS, both NASL and USL are business entities, with ultimately a profit motiviation. Neither NASL nor USL are simply going to just dissolve because MLS should take over, in your opinion, soccer in the US.
And as for your comment that USL created destruction at the lower divisions in the pyramid, I just don’t get that at all. USL has one of the best development leagues in the country with PDL, and without PDL, there would be a huge gap in developmental play. Granted, USL-1 was probably a disaster in the making, but that is not a “lower” division of the pyramid, as you wrote this.
I’m as skeptical as nearly anyone regarding the NASL.
However, I do know the location that this ownership group is looking at putting a stadium. There is nothing in the way of them doing it there as far as I can tell. All they need to do is raise the money. It would be done without any city financing. They probably would only need minimal city approvals as they’ll need little, if any, infrastructure work at that site, and it’s down in a former Cement quarry, so there’s no neighbors to really gripe about it.
You’re not looking at building a Rhinos or MLS type stadium here. Something no more than Carolina’s, and that should be easy to build in a year. They have a half year, then to get the money together. Unlike the rest of the country, Texas is generally doing OK financially… and with the ties this ownership group has to Campos and Mexican soccer, I think it’s reasonable to believe they can pull it off.
As with everything else, we will see.
I don’t see any reason to go off all negative about this group, just because we’ve seen Tampa have issues getting their stadium done, and Edmonton is coming in without one (mind you, they didn’t promise one the way this group is).
Hasn’t USL already formally and publicly committed to having their highest level be D3 next year with their USL PRO league?
If so, why would anyone not want a D2 league to fill the gap between D1 (MSL) and D3 (USL PRO)?
If there are reasons why I would love to hear them.
Here’s a very concise summary of what I’ve been feeling about the NASL and USL for some time:
http://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showpost.php?p=21947544&postcount=5
Upshot: I’m still not convinced that enough good business people are involved in D2 and D3 soccer.
First let me say that as someone who has really renewed a long idle interest in professional soccer over the last year, I have not found a better place anywhere on the web for coverage of D2 soccer in the US. Brian your time and efforts here are much appreciated.
Now I’ve been reading these pages for quite awhile now, and I suppose I’m finally moved to comment. For the life of me I cannot understand the venom I see in some of these posts.
Bart, I can’t help but suspect you are related to a high-ranking USL league or team employee. The way you come off with your complete disregard for a logical view of D2 soccer is amazing for someone who at least appears to be passionate. USL “lost” and the NASL “won” the battle that started a year ago. If you truly love pro soccer in this country and want to see it continue to grow, why on earth would you direct all of your energy into hating rather then supporting?
Tom, I could not agree with you more. Too often the posts on these articles are about nothing more than bashing one side or the other. Most of the people who post here seem to have a local team they are passionate about. That’s what it’s all about. The sport has grown, admittedly very slowly and not without plenty of ups and downs, but still, it has grown since 1994.
We need to support our teams first, and the leagues they play in second. I for one cannot wait for the Strikers to be back next year. I wouldn’t be any less excited if they were playing in the USL as I am with them playing in the NASL. And yes, I know all about the comments I have opened myself up to with regards to Traffic and they’re handling of pro soccer in South Florida in the past. But that’s a different discussion. LOL And I also know some of you will now say, ok, he’s an NASL supporter. Yes I am, but it has nothing to do with Traffic. It has to do with the NASL having the only chance at D2 sanctioning, so I say put all our support behind it.
so this is a different group than the one that has been talking about soccer in SA for the last year or two. it will be interesting to see how this pans out with the two groups looking to do similar things in the same market.
But I would be more interested in what the NASL has to say about the bid for 2011. As it stands now, if NASL’s six teams get sanctioned SA in 2012 would only replace Montreal. Still leaving six teams.
It really is going to come down to how flexible USSF is going to be with the standards.
If the NASL gets sanctioned, I think it’s a pretty safe assumption that Austin will join. And wherever San Antonio is Austin will want to be. The convenience of a team 75 miles away will be too much to pass up. So, if you make the assumptions you’re making, mikey, you can probably safely also assume 7 teams.;)
This is great news. Remember it’s going to be just as important in naming the team that will resonate with the hispanic community and soccer community in San Antonio. With the right name they will come!!!!!
Very interesting. Good luck to San Antonio. I sincerely hope that it works out for them.
As far as the NASL goes, doesn’t the Propagandist (aka the comments censor) and crew still have something about Atlanta Silverbacks being an expansion team for 2011.
I’m just sayin’…
Hey, if it works then great! Great for Autsin Aztex! Could be a sweet rivalry.
Maybe this will work.
I’m not drinking the kool-aid yet but it is an interesting develpoment.
@Rene: I’m not trying to be an even bigger jerk than usual (really) but I think that you might be overemphazing the inmportance of a name when it comes to attracting the Hispanic community. I don’t know San Antonio or Texas very well (haven’t even been there to visit for at least 13 years).
It is important to try to attract the Hispanic community (just like with any potential cosumer) but I think that the style of play and the roster make up are even bigger factors than the name.
Sometimes even that isn’t enough. I hope that it works out in San Antonio.
Im with you ‘Strikers Return’ and ‘Tom’…Who cares what the league is, just that there is one! Ive followed the original NASL, The APSL, MISL, EISL, ASL, MLS, USL (all divisions) and now, since Im a Tampa fan, The NASL again…but…if FC Tampa Bay switched back to The USL, I would be okay with that, too! I just want the soccer!
I cant help but think how much this mirrors the time right before The AFL/NFL merger. Those two leagues worked out their differences and now you have one of the better sports leagues in the world. I dare to imagine how great soccer would be if we could incorporate all of the USL D2 & D3 and NASL! That would be the ultimate dream for any soccer fan.
Great news about San Antonio (and hopefully this serves as bait for Austin, who ultimately serves as bait for Rochester!)
Strikers Return
No, unfortunately I am not affiliated with USL, because if I was, that shop would be run completely differently than it is now. USL has made more than their fair amount of mistakes and that is largely because I believe their management operated with a condescending attitude towards the customers it was supposed to serve….. meaning its team owners.
Having said that, the issue is not looking at the D-2 or D-3 platform through rose colored glass and benignly cheer on what little piece of propoganda either side chooses to spit forth.
The issues of D-2 soccer have been plainly espoused on many blogs, this one included. It is a revenue/expense issue balanced against the overall little fan support that exists, except in the Pacific Northwest, Canada and those other States that border Canada.
Neither NASL nor USL seem to have what it takes managerially or professionally to properly run a D-2 business. And since that seems to be the case, the business model is flawed, and is in need of repair.
Frankly, I am glad that USL decided to consolidate its teams and stick with one league. Maybe they can focus on the regionalized league concept and make it sustainable. In other words, maybe they can get it right this time, since they are getting a gift, a second chance.
I will tell you that, forgetting all the speculation posed with Austin, if Austin does decide to move to USL Pro, that puts San Antonio in the middle of nowhere. That trek from San Antonio to Puerto Rico and Edmonton will cost this group a pretty penny.
True, Austin might move to NASL with D-2, but if that was a fact, why were they not part of the application sent to USSF? This application for sanctioning is the most critical part of the overall occasion for NASL, and announcing San Antonio does not get NASL over the hump for 2011. Their representation that they have 12 teams is disingenuous.
What I want is for some truly committed and savvy folks with real soccer experience to take over D-2 and put a plan together that is more than just throwing something at the wall and see if it will stick. Yes, that will require major change, but change is a good thing at this point, as for D-2, neither group got the picture.
It’s funny how if you’re skeptical of yet another seemingly fly-by-night organization joining D2, you’re not in favor of the growth of the sport. That’s odd.
Actually, we’d all be in favor of the sport growing. We’d be in favor of doing that with organizations that will actually succeed and be around for a while, rather than the endless parade of here today-gone tomorrow outfits that have made up the bulk of the “growth” historically.
Also, if Bart believes that if he was affiliated with USL he’d be able to affect real change just by the force of his will, I’d love to meet him. Because that seems like a big hat/no cattle situation.
@ Grant Stephens – I agree with your comment. The league name really doesn’t matter all that much, I want to have a soccer team in my area. I would support my local team in D3 (or lower if there was any) just as passionately as if it was in D2. BUT, the discussion should hopefully encourage league leadership to create healthy league structure that ensures viability and growth.
Also, on a few occasions I’ve seen comments that state that USL Pro is D3. Ultimately the USL declared the USL Pro below MLS. See below quote from uslsoccer.com from the press release about the Charlotte Eagles joining USL Pro:
“…the newly established USL PRO for the club’s 19th year of competition. Created through a merger of the United Soccer Leagues First and Second Divisions, USL PRO will represent the highest level of competition in the United States, Canada and the Caribbean outside of Major League Soccer (MLS).”
Of course, if USSF doesn’t sanction them as D2, FIFA will simply not recognize them as such, no matter how great the fanfare. HOWEVER, if the level of play is equal to that of the NASL, then practically speaking both NASL & USSF will experience a bit of …egg on the face…moment.
Needless to say, I’m very happy about San Antonio. It’s a great city for soccer, and coupled with Austin Aztex, FC Dallas and Houston Dynamo, it will really round up the Texas soccer circle. I’m excited about it.
I love how people have shot NASL in the head before they have even had one year on their own to do anything.
Nov 7, 2010
USL Pro may consider themselves the highest level of play below MLS, and they may be that, if the NASL doesn’t get sanctioned. However, they will not be able to be sanctioned as D2, as many of their teams will not meet the USSF D2 requirements. If NASL misses out, then there will just be a hole in the American soccer pyramid, and we will have to wait and see if any other adventurous soul will be willing to step in and try at some point in the future. Perhaps one day there will be an MLS reserve league functioning as the D2. Or maybe enough USL Pro teams will get big enough to want to make a step forward to a national league. Either one is years away. For now, for those people who have markets and teams that can’t get into MLS, but want/need to play in a national league… I certainly hope the NASL bid goes through. I see the alternative as a big step backward for the sport in this country, and for a lot of people who have put a lot of time, effort, and money into it. Yes, many teams have failed over the years, and yes it seems business sense has been missing from many of these organizations… but I don’t see that as a reason to react negatively to positive signs that a relatively new organization might, conceivably, do better than what has been the status quo. Good luck to the NASL and their teams and fans.
@treefire: Strong post, Bro. Very nicely written…
Hey–Not only has San Antonio been added on to the banner of member teams but the Propagandist has finally removed Atlanta Silverbacks!!!
’bout freaking time that the NASL stopped blowing smoke over the whole Boris-Silverbacks bit…
@ treefire – I fully agree. I like the post.
Kenn:
My plan would not be going into USL as an intern…..Obviously, I could only have an effect in a top spot or ownership position, and further, it was rhetorical. Being in the Northeast, I would truly love to spend the winters in Tampa!!
here’s a link to the crocketteers website. its a supporters group thats been around for about two years now waiting for a team…much like the sons of ben.
http://www.crocketteers.com/
good local info there.
also, there’s been rumors around town about revamping Alamo Stadium for the team.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alamo_Stadium
also…
Gordon Hartman is a HUGE philanthropist in our community.
Morgan’s Wonderalnd is a place for families with children who have disabilities can go and have fun.
nice guy and huge soccer supporter.
this is the soccer complex he just built
http://www.starsoccersa.com/
I was told by at friend playing at SUNY Purchase (there coach is the TD at FCNY) that New York may be joining the NASL
Bart,
One of your first comments was “cannot have a D2 stadium built in time to make that date”
You know that Crew Stadium (still better than most outside of MLS) was built in less time? Starfire like stadium could be done in a year as well. Add a month to get more bathrooms, and things are fine.
We’re not talking Red Bull Arena here. We’re talking a small D-2 stadium.
@treefire: I echo the sentiments of some others – excellent post.
Ultimately, we are looking at USSF wanting to control the soccer pyramid structure in this country, right? They want to develop a system that is at least in some principle ways, comparable to what we see in the nations who are international soccer powers, ie. England, Germany, Spain, Italy, Holland, etc.
As Americans we thrive on competition and being able to say we are the best. Why else did we send Jordan, Magic, Bird, and company to thrash the rest of the world? I think, whether you agree with the methods or not, this is the same thing motivating the USSF. And again, their methods aside, can’t everyone agree with that goal? We want the US to come into the World Cup every four years as a nation with as good a chance as anyone to win. Is it realistic? Doesn’t matter, really. The pursuit of it is as American as you can get in talking about sports. But you have to have a COMPLETE system in place that works, unified, towards this.
What I see is the USSF working on this process. They’ve started with D2, probably because it made the most sense to them considering the looming 2022 World Cup bid. But make no mistake, at some point they will lay out a set of guidelines and requirements for D3 sanctioning, maybe even D4. That’s all assuming of course that pro soccer below MLS survives mostly intact in this country for the next 5 – 10 years. Will their ideas work? Who knows, only time will tell. But I think it’s important to be constantly working at it.
Maybe the NASL fails, and the USL gets what they’re obviously banking on – BY DEFAULT becoming the highest level of pro soccer below MLS in this country. I for one think there has been more than enough steps back for D2 over the years, so it’s time for some forward thinking.
Stepping backwards and hoping the other guy fails isn’t a strategy I’d be proud to run a business under. I also don’t think it’s overly intelligent considering what should be the common goal of all soccer franchises in this country. Ultimately I hope Austin and Rochester think it through and come to the same conclusion. With them, the NASL has a far better chance of succeeding. USL Pro isn’t getting sanctioned as a D2 league ANYTIME soon, so they’ll have to be willing to live with that by self-relegating themselves to D3 if that is the path they choose.
Dave Clark
Do you know the cost of building such a stadium?
One good example: Saputo Stadium in Montreal took a year to be built and cost $17M Canadian; it seats 13000. 7000+ more seats are going to be added to make it ready for MLS. That’s one idea: you start smaller, leaving room for expansion.
So I suppose Bart’s argument is that bringing teams in for 2012 or later means the NASL gets a rain check so to speak and doesn’t have to prove anything now, while USL is doing the tough work of bringing in new teams for 2011? So in reality the NASL has no business operating a league until at least 2012 because they are only looking at 2012 and beyond?
Shame on NASL! How dare they look long term and not focus on trying to take as many franchise fees as possible for a short term fix!
Bart’s solution- let all the current NASL teams play USL Pro in 2011 traveling to face Antigua (population under 100,000) and two new Puerto Rican teams. USL should be rewarded for their continued ambition to allow sell new teams to shaky owners and worry about the league from year to year. Let the market decide and let 75% of the teams fail because USL is always willing to take any owner who can pay an initial fee.
A reason exists why MLS has been stable and the league grows stronger and stronger while the teams previously associated with USL are either out of business, moved to MLS, dropped to PDL or have joined the NASL. Enough is Enough! Again, I don’t know if the NASL is the right vehicle for D2 going forward but by merely not being USL they are already ahead of the alleged “competition.” for D2.
Thanks for the kind words on the post, guys, glad you liked it. One thing I feel like I left out was saying good luck to the USL, also. I guess I wasn’t really thinking about them, as this thread is really about the NASL. The USL really seems to have made some changes, and some good decisions. I hope it works out. For me, the best thing about the USL is the national youth league and PDL. These are the foundations for expansion of the game, imho. I just hope they don’t rush it. Having a dialog with the teams that seem like they might be ready to move up soon, and then planning for regional groups of them to move up to USL Pro together, just seems to make sense to me. No point rushing teams that aren’t ready, no point trying to move up when there won’t be anyone around you to play. Hopefully these are the conversations they’re having now. I can certainly see, five years down the line, perhaps, regional leagues in the upper midwest, southwest, northeast, and southeast, and that would be a fine thing. I honestly hope we don’t see more than regional leagues in the NE and SE next year (and, apparently, the Caribbean). That really seems like it would be too much, too fast.
Starfire cost 10M originally. A couple million to expand to its 5,000 capacity now. Total costs though inlude a dozen fields, including indoor.
Jeff:
{….”Bart’s solution- let all the current NASL teams play USL Pro in 2011 traveling to face Antigua (population under 100,000) and two new Puerto Rican teams. USL should be rewarded for their continued ambition to allow sell new teams to shaky owners and worry about the league from year to year. Let the market decide and let 75% of the teams fail because USL is always willing to take any owner who can pay an initial fee”……..}
Jeff, if you are going to summarize my position, you might want to add some real facts to the milkshake. I never stated any of the above as my position or a solution. USL is no longer D-2, that is evident, and frankly, I agree with your position.
The question is the landscape of the current business model from a D-2 USSF standards perspective. If the answer is to go find eight millionaires worth over $20,000,000 that are currently willing to lose $750,000 to $1,200,000 a year for the next 3 years, then we are already there.
Now that the business model is set, let’s go find a piece of land to build a stadium for another five to six million dollars in capital expenditures.
It is the basic model that I question.
Jeff is also erroneous when he ignores that USL Pro will be regional, and only 1 NASL club is in the Caribbean
Umbro just signed a deal to sell the NY Cosmos jerseys. They were the team’s sponsors back in the NASL days.
The only thing I’m worried about is that the Miami FC owner is the president of NASL…..